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  #231  
Old August 12th, 2007, 03:05 PM
Andrew Boulton Andrew Boulton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mytholder View Post
While it may not stay as exactly that, the resolution system in RTT is planned to be:
* roll 2d6
* add your skill
* add (something derived from your stat, but it'll be less important than the skill in most rolls)
So, MegaTraveller, basically. I can live with that
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  #232  
Old August 12th, 2007, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mytholder View Post
The current resolution system being toyed with is 2d6+Skill+(Stat-7), roll-over a difficulty, which is a suggested alternate system to the multiple-d6 rollunder system in the T5 docs I've seen. While it may not stay as exactly that, the resolution system in RTT is planned to be:
* roll 2d6
* add your skill
* add (something derived from your stat, but it'll be less important than the skill in most rolls)
Whilst Stat -7 is quite easy to use, it then (as Hunter seems to be saying) makes high stats as relevant as high skill. I happen to agree with Hunter that a highly skilled character should be better than a highly talented one.
One way around this is to use the stat modifiers mentioned elswhere in this and other threads;

2 = -2
3-5 = -1
6-8 = 0
9-11 = +1
12-14 = +2
15-17 = +3

This has the advantages of highly talented characters getting a bonus, but that bonus does not overshadow training. It also has the advantage of being more familiar to d20 players.

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Originally Posted by Mytholder View Post
As for skill ranges - again, early days yet. While the range of skills will probably be 1-15, that doesn't mean that your average character will be running around with Gun Combat 13 or whatever. An RTT character will probably have more skills than a CT character, but I don't think they'll have significantly higher skills.

All the above is subject to change, but part of my design brief is "keep close to CT where possible".
I think that stating skill levels of 1-15 is what's throwing people. Whenever we start thinking of the chances of doing things we tend to think of the extremes to see if we can break the system, when we should really be thinking of average skill levels :-)

What might be useful is a table showing what different skill levels equate to; an average character earning a living through that skill would have a level of say 3. It would give players some idead of what level their character was in relation to other users. IIRC in CT it was 2?
A table similar to the d20 DCs table might also be useful, explaining what different DCs mean (Easy, Average, Hard etc.)
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  #233  
Old August 12th, 2007, 03:18 PM
hunter hunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takei View Post
Whilst Stat -7 is quite easy to use, it then (as Hunter seems to be saying) makes high stats as relevant as high skill. I happen to agree with Hunter that a highly skilled character should be better than a highly talented one.
Actually I was commenting on the person who said to use the full stat value rather than stat - 7, though even stat - 7 still gives too much to those who have very high stats. On a range of 1-15 on stats I think +3 maybe +4 is the highest stat bonus that should be allowed.
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  #234  
Old August 12th, 2007, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takei View Post
One way around this is to use the stat modifiers mentioned elswhere in this and other threads;

2 = -2
3-5 = -1
6-8 = 0
9-11 = +1
12-14 = +2
15-17 = +3

This has the advantages of highly talented characters getting a bonus, but that bonus does not overshadow training. It also has the advantage of being more familiar to d20 players.
The stat modifiers I'd argue for would be:
St / Mod
0-1=-2
2-4=-1
5-9=0
10-12=+1
13-15=+2

Why, because I think that stat mods should have a very small impact on the throw and that expectional stats (like being in the top 16% of general population) is what gives you an equivelent to a trained skill level. But I personally believe that Traveller shouldn't have any stat modifiers to task rolls anyway, I'm very old school.
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  #235  
Old August 12th, 2007, 03:58 PM
Tobias Tobias is offline
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Originally Posted by hunter View Post
A person with a stat of 7 isn't going to be as capable as a person with a skill rank of 7 in that skill.
That is what you can write in the fluff text, but the cold, hard, mathmatical fact is: Someone with a stat of, say, 10 is as superior in any relevant task to someone with a stat of 5 as somebody with a skill of 10 is superior to someone with a skill of 5.

Quote:
But you were saying to remove the -7 because it was an extra step but you just reversed it an tacked it onto the TN which is an extra step...
For players. The table with standard TNs will be adjusted during game design. Deriving a value from a characteristic by subtracting 7 will have to be done by players during character generation or during play.
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  #236  
Old August 12th, 2007, 04:05 PM
Tobias Tobias is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyT0001 View Post
The stat modifiers I'd argue for would be:
St / Mod
0-1=-2
2-4=-1
5-9=0
10-12=+1
13-15=+2
I again pitch my "Reduce the stat range to 1-5" idea!

Quote:
Why, because I think that stat mods should have a very small impact on the throw and that expectional stats (like being in the top 16% of general population) is what gives you an equivelent to a trained skill level. But I personally believe that Traveller shouldn't have any stat modifiers to task rolls anyway, I'm very old school.
Well, you need some kind of task modifier derived from (or directly expressed by) stats, because there are some tasks that depend on stats alone.
Furthermore, if stats do not normally add to task rolls, they need some other advantage to make an impact on the game (or they are just a fancy decoration of your character sheet.)
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  #237  
Old August 12th, 2007, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
I again pitch my "Reduce the stat range to 1-5" idea!
Well, if they are keeping compatibility with CT, then you need to keep the stats as 1-15, because they are basically your hit points (for STR,END,DEX anyway), unless you want to start rejigging all the weapon stats as well.

The MT version was 3+/7+/11+/15+ with each 5 points of stat giving +1, I've seen the alternative suggestion here somewhere of 4+/8+/12+/16+ with each 3 points of stat giving +1.

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  #238  
Old August 12th, 2007, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
That is what you can write in the fluff text, but the cold, hard, mathmatical fact is: Someone with a stat of, say, 10 is as superior in any relevant task to someone with a stat of 5 as somebody with a skill of 10 is superior to someone with a skill of 5.
Yes but someone with a stat of 10 isn't necessarily superior to someone with a skill of 5. That is the problem with using the stat as equal in effect to the skill.
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  #239  
Old August 12th, 2007, 07:58 PM
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The problems I have with doing D&Desque +/- modifiers associated with the Characteristic scores are that they aren't especially intuitive, they require that you need to recorda seperate column of data, and they kinda make the actual Characteristic scores themselves redundant.

Why don't people like the non-fixed, comparitive bonus criteria I outlined before: where you must compare your characteristic with the difficulty itself to determine if you get a bonus or penalty?
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  #240  
Old August 12th, 2007, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Echo View Post
The problems I have with doing D&Desque +/- modifiers associated with the Characteristic scores are that they aren't especially intuitive, they require that you need to recorda seperate column of data, and they kinda make the actual Characteristic scores themselves redundant.
I tend to agree honestly, it's one of the gripes I have with T20

Quote:
Why don't people like the non-fixed, comparitive bonus criteria I outlined before: where you must compare your characteristic with the difficulty itself to determine if you get a bonus or penalty?
It's not a bad mechanic, but it's an all or nothing proposition. You either get the bonus or you do not. I will give that it actually is similar to how many skills were handled in CT, in which you only got a modifier if your skill rank was X+.
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