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  #1  
Old January 23rd, 2004, 01:18 PM
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As an experiment, I retrofitted MegaTraveller's power plant rules to High Guard values. I also scaled them to be more starship-friendly, but I lost some data in the process -- because the original volumes were minimum sizes. I tossed that out with very little regret.

I also, in the name of non-gearheadedness, ruthlessly reduced most numbers to one (or at most two) significant digits. So the numbers are not exact. But they might be close enough.

Finally, it seems that the EP scale is off, perhaps by a factor of 100. Can anyone make a suggestion?


</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">TL Desc EP Mass Cr Tons t/hr
-- --------------- ---- ------- -------- -------- -------
5 IC 7 27 27k 0.01 0.8
6 IIC 5 14 27k 0.001 0.3
6 Nuclear Fission 3 22 270k 1 0.005
7 Gas Turbine 16 27 140k 0.01 1.0
8 MHD Turbine 10 14 140k 0.001 0.5
9 Fusion 3 5 270k 1 0.004
10 Fusion 14 28 1.4m 1 0.02
11 Fusion 25 50 2.7m 1 0.04
12 Fusion 100 220 1.1m 1 0.2
13 Fusion 250 250 1.8m 1 0.5
14 Fusion 400 400 2.7m 1 0.7
15 Fusion 900 300 3.0m 1 1.4
16 Fusion 1200 170 3.4m 1 1.7
17 Antimatter 8 0.1 8400 0.01 4
18 Antimatter 15 0.07 6800 0.001 7
19 Antimatter 70 0.1 14k 0.001 34
20 Antimatter 200 0.04 6800 0.0001 100
21 Antimatter 350 0.01 3400 0.00001 170

* Antimatter fuel consumption is in years, not hours.</pre>[/QUOTE]
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Old January 23rd, 2004, 10:07 PM
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I'm still working through the numbers myself, but I can say that I've always thought the MT fuel consumption of fission reactors was way too high.

Does anyone know if any errata was ever published about that? I'd think that fission reactors would have their fuel consumption rated in kl/year (like antimatter plants) not in kl/hour.
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Old January 23rd, 2004, 10:07 PM
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I'm still working through the numbers myself, but I can say that I've always thought the MT fuel consumption of fission reactors was way too high.

Does anyone know if any errata was ever published about that? I'd think that fission reactors would have their fuel consumption rated in kl/year (like antimatter plants) not in kl/hour.
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Old January 24th, 2004, 04:33 PM
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The Official conversion (Striker AND MT) is 250 MW/EP
It is not a direct statement, but all the 1 EP HG weapons draw 250 MW, and the 2 EP weapons all draw 500MW.
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Old January 24th, 2004, 04:33 PM
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The Official conversion (Striker AND MT) is 250 MW/EP
It is not a direct statement, but all the 1 EP HG weapons draw 250 MW, and the 2 EP weapons all draw 500MW.
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Old January 25th, 2004, 08:56 AM
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Well, I'm not going to try to work the numbers out for all of them, but I have wondered myself about trying to use fission powerplants with High Guard designs, so here's what I get for them.

In MT, 1 kl of TL6 fission plant gets you 1MW output. You also get an x2 output modifier for large-scale (greater than 50 kl volume) fission plants. So to generate 250MW (which equals 1 EP in High Guard) you need 125 units of fission plant, which take up 125 kl, or 9.26 dtons (at 13.5 kl per dton). This compares poorly to HG powerplants that even at their lowest TL require only 4 dtons per EP.

Then there's the fuel. Any HG powerplant needs 1 dton of fuel per EP per month of operation. MT says that fission plants need 0.002 kl of fuel per hour per 1 kl of powerplant. So running a 250MW plant (of 125kl volume) requires 0.25 kl/hour fuel, or put another way, 1 dton of fissionables will provide 250MW of power for 54 hours, or over 2 days. So getting 30 days endurance will require about 15 dtons of fuel, according to MT. This really looks bad.

I used to run nuclear reactors for the US Navy. I can tell you that fission plants do not burn up their fuel so fast. FFS gives fuel consumption for fission reactors in kl/year, which is much better. A FFS TL8 fission plant uses 0.1kl fuel/year/kl of reactor. I'm using the fuel consumption stats for the FFS TL-8 plant because it gives 1MW output per kl plant, just like the MT TL-6 plant. Using this fuel consumption, a 250MW fission plant needs 12.5kl/year of fissionables for fuel. That's close enough to 1 dton volume (13.5kl) to just go ahead and say that 1 dton of fuel gives one year endurance for 1 EP of fission plant.

So, an example.

A factor-2 powerplant for a jump-2, 2-G, 200-ton far trader at TL 11 would take up 12 dtons and require 4 dtons fuel for one month's operation. The powerplant generates 4 EP. The powerplant costs MCr36. The fuel tank is free.

A 4 EP fission plant takes up 37.04 dtons (a little more than 3 times as much) but 4 dtons of fissionable fuel would run that power plant for a year. The powerplant costs MCr50 plus MCr4.05 for the 4dtons of fuel.

That powerplant endurance is enough to make you wonder what a TL15 fission plant might be capable of. I would not let it generate the power per kiloliter of a fusion plant, but if the size came down a little (to around twice the size of a fusion plant of that TL) and the fuel endurance went up some more (say, to twice as much) you might find fission plants to be very useful for some applications.

It also makes me wonder if you could run a jump drive off a fission plant. I would say "No" for right now, since that would be a major change in how TRAVELLER ships are designed (no 10% of ship volume per jump number in jump fuel???) but if you were starting a new campaign with your own setting and wanted things to be different, this would do it.
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Old January 25th, 2004, 08:56 AM
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Well, I'm not going to try to work the numbers out for all of them, but I have wondered myself about trying to use fission powerplants with High Guard designs, so here's what I get for them.

In MT, 1 kl of TL6 fission plant gets you 1MW output. You also get an x2 output modifier for large-scale (greater than 50 kl volume) fission plants. So to generate 250MW (which equals 1 EP in High Guard) you need 125 units of fission plant, which take up 125 kl, or 9.26 dtons (at 13.5 kl per dton). This compares poorly to HG powerplants that even at their lowest TL require only 4 dtons per EP.

Then there's the fuel. Any HG powerplant needs 1 dton of fuel per EP per month of operation. MT says that fission plants need 0.002 kl of fuel per hour per 1 kl of powerplant. So running a 250MW plant (of 125kl volume) requires 0.25 kl/hour fuel, or put another way, 1 dton of fissionables will provide 250MW of power for 54 hours, or over 2 days. So getting 30 days endurance will require about 15 dtons of fuel, according to MT. This really looks bad.

I used to run nuclear reactors for the US Navy. I can tell you that fission plants do not burn up their fuel so fast. FFS gives fuel consumption for fission reactors in kl/year, which is much better. A FFS TL8 fission plant uses 0.1kl fuel/year/kl of reactor. I'm using the fuel consumption stats for the FFS TL-8 plant because it gives 1MW output per kl plant, just like the MT TL-6 plant. Using this fuel consumption, a 250MW fission plant needs 12.5kl/year of fissionables for fuel. That's close enough to 1 dton volume (13.5kl) to just go ahead and say that 1 dton of fuel gives one year endurance for 1 EP of fission plant.

So, an example.

A factor-2 powerplant for a jump-2, 2-G, 200-ton far trader at TL 11 would take up 12 dtons and require 4 dtons fuel for one month's operation. The powerplant generates 4 EP. The powerplant costs MCr36. The fuel tank is free.

A 4 EP fission plant takes up 37.04 dtons (a little more than 3 times as much) but 4 dtons of fissionable fuel would run that power plant for a year. The powerplant costs MCr50 plus MCr4.05 for the 4dtons of fuel.

That powerplant endurance is enough to make you wonder what a TL15 fission plant might be capable of. I would not let it generate the power per kiloliter of a fusion plant, but if the size came down a little (to around twice the size of a fusion plant of that TL) and the fuel endurance went up some more (say, to twice as much) you might find fission plants to be very useful for some applications.

It also makes me wonder if you could run a jump drive off a fission plant. I would say "No" for right now, since that would be a major change in how TRAVELLER ships are designed (no 10% of ship volume per jump number in jump fuel???) but if you were starting a new campaign with your own setting and wanted things to be different, this would do it.
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Old January 29th, 2004, 08:01 PM
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Here's my numbers for the rest of the MT powerplants in HG terms.

MEGATRAVELLER POWERPLANTS IN HIGH GUARD TERMS

What I've done here is to use the MT stats to calculate the size in dtons (13.5 kiloliters) of a 1 Energy Point (250MW) powerplant. I have also calculated the fuel consumption of that plant. For nuclear fission plants I used a fuel consumption figure from FFS of 0.100 kiloliters per year, which I feel is more accurate. The fuel per month figure is based on 720 hours in one month of 30 days. I used the scale efficiency modifers for all plants.
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Plant type Dtons/1 EP Fuel/hr Fuel/month
(dtons) (dtons)
Internal
Combustion 51.3 1.5 1080

Improved IC 30.9 0.77 554.4

Gas Turbine 20.6 0.82 590.4

MHD Turbine 15.4 0.54 388.8

Fission 9.3 ---- ---- 0.93 dtons/year

TL9-12 fusion 3.1 0.009 6.48

TL13-14 fusion 2.1 0.01 7.2

TL 15 fusion 1.03 0.009 6.48</pre>[/QUOTE]For comparison here are the equivalent powerplant figures from High Guard
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Plant type Dtons/1 EP Fuel/hr Fuel/month
(dtons) (dtons)

TL7-8 ????? 4 0.001 1

TL9-12 fusion 3 0.001 1

TL13-14 fusion 2 0.001 1

TL 15 fusion 1 0.001 1</pre>[/QUOTE]I'm not sure what type the HG TL7-8 powerplants are; fusion plants are not available until TL9.

They got the size of the fusion plants just about right; MT fusion reactors are just about the same size as HG plants. HG plants use a lot less fuel, however.

The HG TL7-8 plant is an anomaly; it's not as big as a fission plant, it uses fuel like a fusion plant but fusion isn't available at those TLs.
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Old January 29th, 2004, 08:01 PM
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Here's my numbers for the rest of the MT powerplants in HG terms.

MEGATRAVELLER POWERPLANTS IN HIGH GUARD TERMS

What I've done here is to use the MT stats to calculate the size in dtons (13.5 kiloliters) of a 1 Energy Point (250MW) powerplant. I have also calculated the fuel consumption of that plant. For nuclear fission plants I used a fuel consumption figure from FFS of 0.100 kiloliters per year, which I feel is more accurate. The fuel per month figure is based on 720 hours in one month of 30 days. I used the scale efficiency modifers for all plants.
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Plant type Dtons/1 EP Fuel/hr Fuel/month
(dtons) (dtons)
Internal
Combustion 51.3 1.5 1080

Improved IC 30.9 0.77 554.4

Gas Turbine 20.6 0.82 590.4

MHD Turbine 15.4 0.54 388.8

Fission 9.3 ---- ---- 0.93 dtons/year

TL9-12 fusion 3.1 0.009 6.48

TL13-14 fusion 2.1 0.01 7.2

TL 15 fusion 1.03 0.009 6.48</pre>[/QUOTE]For comparison here are the equivalent powerplant figures from High Guard
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Plant type Dtons/1 EP Fuel/hr Fuel/month
(dtons) (dtons)

TL7-8 ????? 4 0.001 1

TL9-12 fusion 3 0.001 1

TL13-14 fusion 2 0.001 1

TL 15 fusion 1 0.001 1</pre>[/QUOTE]I'm not sure what type the HG TL7-8 powerplants are; fusion plants are not available until TL9.

They got the size of the fusion plants just about right; MT fusion reactors are just about the same size as HG plants. HG plants use a lot less fuel, however.

The HG TL7-8 plant is an anomaly; it's not as big as a fission plant, it uses fuel like a fusion plant but fusion isn't available at those TLs.
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Old January 30th, 2004, 04:40 PM
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Did you know that over on the CT-Starship yahoo group someone did a MT to HG convertion. It is a folder in the files area labled "MT to HG". [img]smile.gif[/img]
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