Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > Other Versions of Traveller > MegaTraveller

MegaTraveller Discuss of the MegaTraveller ruleset and the Rebellion Milieu

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old May 6th, 2006, 02:07 PM
Golan2072's Avatar
Golan2072 Golan2072 is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yavne
Posts: 3,080
Gallery : 1
Golan2072 Citizen+Golan2072 Citizen+
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurega Gikur:
IN a system like the 3I I think most people see the Imperium as eternal and may have habitually follow the lead of the nobles.
Revolutions occur when the masses understand that the system they live under is not an eternal structure handed down by God (or Cleon or whatever) but a Human-made structure that serves the interests of one group or another. Most peasants and city-dwellers in France probably thought for centuries that the semi-feudal absolute monarchy was eternal, right up to the point when the circumstances (especially the economic ones) caused the masses to realize that the structure was nothing more than the rule of the few over the many under various disguises, and hence the 1789 Revolution. Sure, the elite rules the opinions of the masses under most circumstances - but at certain points in history the contrast between these opinions and the reality reaches such a high peak that causes these opinions to shatter and be replaced, for a time, by the interests of the masses (more or less); even the worst police state (except for the Zhodani who REALLY control the thoughts of their Proles) cannot prevent this from happening - even East Germany, with about ONE THIRD of its population employed as agents of the Shtazi (state security police), reached the point in 1989 when the masses went out and smashed the Berlin Wall, state spies and rotten bureaucrats be damned. The British Empire, one of the greatest military powers in the 18th century, was forced out of North America by the colonial revolt of 1776 that gave rise to the USA.

For the most of history, the masses are a sleeping dragon. But when that dragon awakens, stimulated by the events of the era, no chains and no walls can hold it. This is why most governments, from the worst dictatorship to the some most enlightened democracies, invest so much in propaganda, in police forces, even in welfare (keep the masses happy and the likelihood of a revolt falls dramatically - see the Roman Empire's tactic of "Bread and Circuses").

And reforms might trigger revolution far more effectively than means of repression - as, in certain cases, they demonstrate the fact that the sate machine is not an eternal structure but a man-modifyable one. Give the masses a finger, under the right circumstances, and they'll want the whole hand - as they'll understand that the clenched fist is not the product of god but the result of the actions of man. Under Stalinism, Eastern Europe was full of repressive, jack-booted police states, but open revolts were rare (Prague and a few others). However, when Gurbachev, with his reforms, showed that the state machine could be changed for the betterment of the masses, everything fell apart - both due to the fact that the state displayed a clear inability to repress the masses, and because change was displayed as possible. Sure, there wasn't a popular rebellion in Russia in 1989, but there were uprisings and mass revolts all over Eastern Europe, resulting in regime changes and, in one case (Romania), the execution of the former tyrant. Unfortunately, the unorganized nature of these revolts gave rise to various opportunist elements, mostly within the former bureaucracy, who sought to plunder the remnants of the old economy; and to various new tyrants who saw an opportunity to start empire-building over the ashes of the old empire (Milosevic [sp?] in former Yugoslavia, for example).
__________________
We are but a tiny candle flickering against the darkness of our times.

Stellagama Publishing - Visit our Blog, Den of the Lizard King
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old May 6th, 2006, 02:31 PM
The Hinterworlds Rambler's Avatar
The Hinterworlds Rambler The Hinterworlds Rambler is offline
Peer of the Realm
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,138
Gallery : 0
The Hinterworlds Rambler Citizen
Post

Mtu,

The Imperium is too large to be stopped by the death of one individual. Also, when Dulinor's moment comes, he suddenly finds himself acting alone. The sheer weight of the event sheds his followers away as they slowly realize the alternative to no Imperium. Plus, I also have the Emperor just Buy thier loyalties behind the scenes.

Mechanically, this would be Strephon's umpteenth Dodge with Assassination. Dulinor learns the hard way of that experience. There is no duel, there is Dulinor drawing a Gun and then a Squad of Imperial Guard throwing him to the floor.

But: All is no longer business as usual with the emperor. The scale of the planned rebellion alarms both Imperium and People. The people begin to get fed up with the costly personal grievances of the Nobility.

There is a vast Anti-Noble sentiment throughout the Imperium, but it is not the lynching variety. Society begins to directly pressure Nobles into being more altruistic and less self-involved. Noble Acitivities start getting a LOT more publicity, and it becomes a trend in reporting.

Testimonials of people caught in the middle of small wars fought between noble's Merc forces have a chilling effect on popular opinion. There is also a move to freeze Noble Stocks and return them to Public Use.

This would allow for factions, even underground factions, against a backdrop of change and unrest.
the problems that potentially led to the REbellion would be there, but it may or may not take the form of secessionist governments. I tcould easily be taken to French Revolution proportions, or lead to a new try against Strephon... many possibilities and tiones possible.
__________________
Count Tirem (Spin 2233 C7B5975B)
Baron Bendor (Spin 2336 A756656C)
Baron Sidur Haski (Gush 1334 B786354C)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF4C01hS2nI
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old May 6th, 2006, 02:31 PM
The Hinterworlds Rambler's Avatar
The Hinterworlds Rambler The Hinterworlds Rambler is offline
Peer of the Realm
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,138
Gallery : 0
The Hinterworlds Rambler Citizen
Post

Mtu,

The Imperium is too large to be stopped by the death of one individual. Also, when Dulinor's moment comes, he suddenly finds himself acting alone. The sheer weight of the event sheds his followers away as they slowly realize the alternative to no Imperium. Plus, I also have the Emperor just Buy thier loyalties behind the scenes.

Mechanically, this would be Strephon's umpteenth Dodge with Assassination. Dulinor learns the hard way of that experience. There is no duel, there is Dulinor drawing a Gun and then a Squad of Imperial Guard throwing him to the floor.

But: All is no longer business as usual with the emperor. The scale of the planned rebellion alarms both Imperium and People. The people begin to get fed up with the costly personal grievances of the Nobility.

There is a vast Anti-Noble sentiment throughout the Imperium, but it is not the lynching variety. Society begins to directly pressure Nobles into being more altruistic and less self-involved. Noble Acitivities start getting a LOT more publicity, and it becomes a trend in reporting.

Testimonials of people caught in the middle of small wars fought between noble's Merc forces have a chilling effect on popular opinion. There is also a move to freeze Noble Stocks and return them to Public Use.

This would allow for factions, even underground factions, against a backdrop of change and unrest.
the problems that potentially led to the REbellion would be there, but it may or may not take the form of secessionist governments. I tcould easily be taken to French Revolution proportions, or lead to a new try against Strephon... many possibilities and tiones possible.
__________________
Count Tirem (Spin 2233 C7B5975B)
Baron Bendor (Spin 2336 A756656C)
Baron Sidur Haski (Gush 1334 B786354C)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF4C01hS2nI
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old May 6th, 2006, 02:31 PM
The Hinterworlds Rambler's Avatar
The Hinterworlds Rambler The Hinterworlds Rambler is offline
Peer of the Realm
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,138
Gallery : 0
The Hinterworlds Rambler Citizen
Post

Mtu,

The Imperium is too large to be stopped by the death of one individual. Also, when Dulinor's moment comes, he suddenly finds himself acting alone. The sheer weight of the event sheds his followers away as they slowly realize the alternative to no Imperium. Plus, I also have the Emperor just Buy thier loyalties behind the scenes.

Mechanically, this would be Strephon's umpteenth Dodge with Assassination. Dulinor learns the hard way of that experience. There is no duel, there is Dulinor drawing a Gun and then a Squad of Imperial Guard throwing him to the floor.

But: All is no longer business as usual with the emperor. The scale of the planned rebellion alarms both Imperium and People. The people begin to get fed up with the costly personal grievances of the Nobility.

There is a vast Anti-Noble sentiment throughout the Imperium, but it is not the lynching variety. Society begins to directly pressure Nobles into being more altruistic and less self-involved. Noble Acitivities start getting a LOT more publicity, and it becomes a trend in reporting.

Testimonials of people caught in the middle of small wars fought between noble's Merc forces have a chilling effect on popular opinion. There is also a move to freeze Noble Stocks and return them to Public Use.

This would allow for factions, even underground factions, against a backdrop of change and unrest.
the problems that potentially led to the REbellion would be there, but it may or may not take the form of secessionist governments. I tcould easily be taken to French Revolution proportions, or lead to a new try against Strephon... many possibilities and tiones possible.
__________________
Count Tirem (Spin 2233 C7B5975B)
Baron Bendor (Spin 2336 A756656C)
Baron Sidur Haski (Gush 1334 B786354C)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF4C01hS2nI
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old May 6th, 2006, 02:45 PM
Golan2072's Avatar
Golan2072 Golan2072 is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yavne
Posts: 3,080
Gallery : 1
Golan2072 Citizen+Golan2072 Citizen+
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by kafka47:
Yes, these are interesting questions. Would Dulinor be viewed as a Cromwell or Washington (who was never elected, afterall).
Or will he be viewed as a Louis XIV (who transformed France from a feudal monarchy to an absolute monarchy, i.e. greatly diminshed the power of nobles)), as a Gurbachev (who, by trying to fix a dead system, demonstrated that it was dead) or as a Napoleon (who took over a rotten parlementary system not unlike the Moot and reformed it into a personal dictatorship).

Quote:
When presenting the scenario, I was thinking that we would rapidly introduce his reforms, and these in turn would engender further reforms...that Dulinor himself could have hoped for but would have not had the courage to implement.
That's a great idea for a milieu - far more dynamic than the classical era OTU (change is in the air, but there are still many who oppose it - so plenty of interesting new conflict to involve the PCs in), yet allows the referee to introduce changes gradually rather than use the "start-over-McGuffin" of the Virus and wipe everything clean of civilization.

Hmmm... Why not publish it in Stellar Reaches #5 under the title "Times are a Changing"? I think this is one of the better versions of the OTU.
__________________
We are but a tiny candle flickering against the darkness of our times.

Stellagama Publishing - Visit our Blog, Den of the Lizard King
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old May 6th, 2006, 02:45 PM
Golan2072's Avatar
Golan2072 Golan2072 is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yavne
Posts: 3,080
Gallery : 1
Golan2072 Citizen+Golan2072 Citizen+
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by kafka47:
Yes, these are interesting questions. Would Dulinor be viewed as a Cromwell or Washington (who was never elected, afterall).
Or will he be viewed as a Louis XIV (who transformed France from a feudal monarchy to an absolute monarchy, i.e. greatly diminshed the power of nobles)), as a Gurbachev (who, by trying to fix a dead system, demonstrated that it was dead) or as a Napoleon (who took over a rotten parlementary system not unlike the Moot and reformed it into a personal dictatorship).

Quote:
When presenting the scenario, I was thinking that we would rapidly introduce his reforms, and these in turn would engender further reforms...that Dulinor himself could have hoped for but would have not had the courage to implement.
That's a great idea for a milieu - far more dynamic than the classical era OTU (change is in the air, but there are still many who oppose it - so plenty of interesting new conflict to involve the PCs in), yet allows the referee to introduce changes gradually rather than use the "start-over-McGuffin" of the Virus and wipe everything clean of civilization.

Hmmm... Why not publish it in Stellar Reaches #5 under the title "Times are a Changing"? I think this is one of the better versions of the OTU.
__________________
We are but a tiny candle flickering against the darkness of our times.

Stellagama Publishing - Visit our Blog, Den of the Lizard King
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old May 6th, 2006, 02:45 PM
Golan2072's Avatar
Golan2072 Golan2072 is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yavne
Posts: 3,080
Gallery : 1
Golan2072 Citizen+Golan2072 Citizen+
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by kafka47:
Yes, these are interesting questions. Would Dulinor be viewed as a Cromwell or Washington (who was never elected, afterall).
Or will he be viewed as a Louis XIV (who transformed France from a feudal monarchy to an absolute monarchy, i.e. greatly diminshed the power of nobles)), as a Gurbachev (who, by trying to fix a dead system, demonstrated that it was dead) or as a Napoleon (who took over a rotten parlementary system not unlike the Moot and reformed it into a personal dictatorship).

Quote:
When presenting the scenario, I was thinking that we would rapidly introduce his reforms, and these in turn would engender further reforms...that Dulinor himself could have hoped for but would have not had the courage to implement.
That's a great idea for a milieu - far more dynamic than the classical era OTU (change is in the air, but there are still many who oppose it - so plenty of interesting new conflict to involve the PCs in), yet allows the referee to introduce changes gradually rather than use the "start-over-McGuffin" of the Virus and wipe everything clean of civilization.

Hmmm... Why not publish it in Stellar Reaches #5 under the title "Times are a Changing"? I think this is one of the better versions of the OTU.
__________________
We are but a tiny candle flickering against the darkness of our times.

Stellagama Publishing - Visit our Blog, Den of the Lizard King
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old May 6th, 2006, 03:02 PM
Golan2072's Avatar
Golan2072 Golan2072 is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yavne
Posts: 3,080
Gallery : 1
Golan2072 Citizen+Golan2072 Citizen+
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by kafka47:
Margaret would represent the plutocratic nobility, and hence feel threatened when power was suddenly shifted over to the people. Furthermore, as a distant relative to Stephon, not also, believing the Real Stephon's claim would mount a claim through nerfarious ways.
About the "real" Strephon - is Dulinor will turn out as a positive figure, the harbringer of change to a rotten system, Strephon will get very little popular support, as he'll symbolize the old system and the undoing of the changes. In the cannon Rebellion, one of Strephon's main powerbases (IIRC) was the support from the masses who just wished that the wheel would roll back to the pre-Rebellion times because the Rebellion was a BIG BAD change. Strephon by himself lacked any real military or economic power in the beginning - fleets and worlds joined him as they saw him as their ticket out of the madness.

Margaret - now, here is the major threat IMHO - she has money, she has LOTS of money, loyal military forces, she has many people in the high levels of Dulinor's bureaucracy who would support her (when their privileuges will be threatened by the reforms) and who'll sabotage the system from within for her; she is even married to a very big megacorp owner. Hell, she might even sign a treaty with the Solomani government, dividing the Imperium (on the paper, ofcourse) between them and organizing a rimward-trailing invasion - making the Rebellion more of a war with clear lines than a very messy civil war.
__________________
We are but a tiny candle flickering against the darkness of our times.

Stellagama Publishing - Visit our Blog, Den of the Lizard King
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old May 6th, 2006, 03:02 PM
Golan2072's Avatar
Golan2072 Golan2072 is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yavne
Posts: 3,080
Gallery : 1
Golan2072 Citizen+Golan2072 Citizen+
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by kafka47:
Margaret would represent the plutocratic nobility, and hence feel threatened when power was suddenly shifted over to the people. Furthermore, as a distant relative to Stephon, not also, believing the Real Stephon's claim would mount a claim through nerfarious ways.
About the "real" Strephon - is Dulinor will turn out as a positive figure, the harbringer of change to a rotten system, Strephon will get very little popular support, as he'll symbolize the old system and the undoing of the changes. In the cannon Rebellion, one of Strephon's main powerbases (IIRC) was the support from the masses who just wished that the wheel would roll back to the pre-Rebellion times because the Rebellion was a BIG BAD change. Strephon by himself lacked any real military or economic power in the beginning - fleets and worlds joined him as they saw him as their ticket out of the madness.

Margaret - now, here is the major threat IMHO - she has money, she has LOTS of money, loyal military forces, she has many people in the high levels of Dulinor's bureaucracy who would support her (when their privileuges will be threatened by the reforms) and who'll sabotage the system from within for her; she is even married to a very big megacorp owner. Hell, she might even sign a treaty with the Solomani government, dividing the Imperium (on the paper, ofcourse) between them and organizing a rimward-trailing invasion - making the Rebellion more of a war with clear lines than a very messy civil war.
__________________
We are but a tiny candle flickering against the darkness of our times.

Stellagama Publishing - Visit our Blog, Den of the Lizard King
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old May 6th, 2006, 03:02 PM
Golan2072's Avatar
Golan2072 Golan2072 is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yavne
Posts: 3,080
Gallery : 1
Golan2072 Citizen+Golan2072 Citizen+
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by kafka47:
Margaret would represent the plutocratic nobility, and hence feel threatened when power was suddenly shifted over to the people. Furthermore, as a distant relative to Stephon, not also, believing the Real Stephon's claim would mount a claim through nerfarious ways.
About the "real" Strephon - is Dulinor will turn out as a positive figure, the harbringer of change to a rotten system, Strephon will get very little popular support, as he'll symbolize the old system and the undoing of the changes. In the cannon Rebellion, one of Strephon's main powerbases (IIRC) was the support from the masses who just wished that the wheel would roll back to the pre-Rebellion times because the Rebellion was a BIG BAD change. Strephon by himself lacked any real military or economic power in the beginning - fleets and worlds joined him as they saw him as their ticket out of the madness.

Margaret - now, here is the major threat IMHO - she has money, she has LOTS of money, loyal military forces, she has many people in the high levels of Dulinor's bureaucracy who would support her (when their privileuges will be threatened by the reforms) and who'll sabotage the system from within for her; she is even married to a very big megacorp owner. Hell, she might even sign a treaty with the Solomani government, dividing the Imperium (on the paper, ofcourse) between them and organizing a rimward-trailing invasion - making the Rebellion more of a war with clear lines than a very messy civil war.
__________________
We are but a tiny candle flickering against the darkness of our times.

Stellagama Publishing - Visit our Blog, Den of the Lizard King
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010- Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.