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TWILIGHT: 2000 1E/2E Discussion of the Twilight: 2000 from GDW.

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  #1  
Old April 21st, 2005, 10:44 AM
tcabril tcabril is offline
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I was wondering if anyone has heard if there will be a Twilight 2000 in either D20 or T20 (the Traveler D20 version).
I am not a huge fan of D20 but it seems that is all anyone wants to play these days and I would love to see Twilight 2000 have a resurgence of sorts.
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Old April 21st, 2005, 11:24 AM
Jamus Jamus is offline
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D20 modern using T2000 background.

done
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Old April 21st, 2005, 02:36 PM
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I think the classes in D20 Modern are a little too 'heroic' for T:2000. That being the case, what could be done to bring power levels into line?
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Old April 21st, 2005, 09:55 PM
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Greetings and salutations,

Maybe it can use something in the vain of creating characters in 2320AD or the rules for creating characters in T20. If the Afvancecd and Prestige classes from D20 are used, then they will need to be tweaked a little for T:2000.

The other thing that will need to go is the Purchase DC. That is one of my pet peeves about D20. You want to freak a Ref out, ask what the Purchase DC is for a package of Vienna Fingers (or one of your favorite snacks) and insist on knowing what the Purchase DC is.

What will really draw me to T:2000 is the realism of combat. I had ran a fed groups that involved members of our Armed Forces or those that had served in the military and they agreed that the game had a system that conveyed the realism of combat.

Now I'm in the mood to run or play Twilight: 2000 v2.0 or 2300AD (American Marine campaign).
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Old April 22nd, 2005, 01:27 PM
Nearside Nearside is offline
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I agree about the purchase DC situation. The situation would be even more complicated in T2000 as so much trade is based on barter - or, even better, grabbing what you can get and running. The whole scavenger aspect of T2000 was one of the things I enjoyed about it most.
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Old April 25th, 2005, 02:46 PM
imported_Sgt_Biggles imported_Sgt_Biggles is offline
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Perhaps I can shed some light on this subject. The Twilight 2000 rewrite is a D20 upgrade. The core rules are those from the Traveller T20 system.

Character creation will be somewhat loose. There are the four base classes for the military: Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines. In addition there is three core classes for civilians: Professional, Craftsman and EMS. Each military core class will have subheadings representing military career specialties. The player will be able to select feats and skills based on service branch and then again based on specialty. The civilian classes do not have specialties built in, allowing the player to generate anything from a garbage collector to a brain surgeon. Once the class and specialty is decided the character goes through up to 4 “Term of Service” A term can be working, going to school or even prison. During each term the character earns XP based on assignment, promotions and awards. At the end of the term a check is made to see if the character has gone to War, or the player can voluntarily opt to go to war. After four terms the character automatically goes to war. There are no “Mustering Out” benefits as such, instead a character can generate extra gear, attribute bumps or skills. At the end of each term the XP is totaled and the character levels up. Prestige classes can be gained at relatively low levels and bring in the Special Forces training. (Or advanced specialties for civilians). Then the character is ready to start the game. The classes are nationality neutral. A characters country of origin is expressed more in terms of equipment then skills. The system allows a player to create a character which is tailored to their concept yet limits the power gamer.

As to the Purchase DC; Two systems are offered. One is simply a Trade Point. I found through playing T2K the most common form of trade is bargaining. So based on perceived need each piece of gear is assigned a point value. Its pretty straight forward, however, a good referee balances out the trade deals anyway. The second is based on money. This is more complicated since monetary systems have broken down and very few areas have an economy going again. T2K Ver 1, used a DC based on availability, the same is true of the re-write. No surprises here.

Should you ask your referee the DC for Vienna Fingers you would first have to find them. (Gather Information DC: 30 and several days, depending on where you are) Once found it becomes a matter of need vs want. The seller turns out to be an old survivalist and the Vienna Fingers a part of his food storage. He might be willing to part with them. He is short of ammo for his PZF 44, 67mm, Rocket launcher. He will trade the can of Vienna Fingers for 6 rockets. Of course a smooth talking trader might talk him down a rocket or two…Now, where to find the rockets?

Hope this is helpful.

As a side note. The T20 version of T2K does not have a projected release at this time, but it is in development.
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Old April 26th, 2005, 11:49 AM
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Thanks for the update! Will combat be changed in any way?

The trade point system sounds very interesting, and could be a good solution.
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Old April 26th, 2005, 12:44 PM
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Combat is done according to the T20 rule set.

The burst and automatic fire rules are good. Hand to hand combat/melee combat is rather weak in T20. However, Close Quarters Combat is being addressed. There will be enough depth for a martial artist style fighter to have several options, yet not so complicated as to drag the combat down. Vehicle combat is streamlined from T20 where starships were the main focus. If you are familiar with T20 you have the general idea.

Weapons have the added attribute of penetration. It’s just not possible to shoot a .22 through the armor of a tank. Even a critical/lucky shot isn't going to damage the thing. By the same token combat armor, even at level III has enough openings and weak points to allow death by a rifle shot. A 120mm HE round fired from an M1A2, well, its just ugly is all.

Individual hit locations are gone as is typical in D20. Added are expanded rules for called shots. A sniper can take the head off a target at 500 meters without much problem. For the less violent you can target weapons and held items, even put a round through a canteen as the target is getting ready to take a drink. It is possible to kill someone with a single pistol shot now.

Combat is extremely lethal. Whenever a character takes a hit there is the loss of stamina, but also a loss of lifeblood. Armor can protect against lifeblood damage. By far the most important aspect of combat is cover. Unlike the original T2K a character can no longer charge the machinegun nest and hope to get more than a few steps without being gunned down. Cover, concealment and spotting have been expanded and represent the core factor in surviving a firefight. Having been in combat my own self, getting to cover is paramount to survival. Better yet, seeing the enemy before he sees you is even better.

A general over view. Hope that helps. I like the T20 combat rules. The effort required to create a character and the ease of which they can be killed, add a strong element of realism not found in other gaming systems. After a single combat even the most unskilled novice player will have learned a little something about tactics and survival.

Of course you cant make everyone happy. The power gamers will be dissappointed I'm afraid. Since I advocate RPG Realms and T20, I cant tell a power gamer to give Spycraft or D20 Modern a go.

Hope this helps.
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Old April 26th, 2005, 01:10 PM
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Greetings and salutations,

Will there be rules or something for Carry Capacity as there was in Twilight:2000? I have had players try to do fancy maneuvers and such until I made them strap on my backpack. On any given day, it weighs 20-40 lbs.

Go ahead, show me how your character is going to do a long jump over the hole in the road with that much weight on your back and a weapon in your hands.

Damn fool also forgot he was carying a half empty canteen and a key ring full of keys. The ememy fire team sent to cover that approach lit him up and the players never argued with me about fancy maneuvers with that much weight again.

It is good to be the Referee!
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Old April 26th, 2005, 01:50 PM
imported_Sgt_Biggles imported_Sgt_Biggles is offline
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HA!! We did that as well. Especially with young players. I like the one where the player jumps out of an APC with a full + pack on, runs across a field and dives through a window. In all fairness, one of the members of the spec ops team I was on could do some amazing things with a full load.

But put a 50 pound pack on + a helmet and vest and a broom handle (not going to give a kid a gun sorry) and have him jump out of the passenger side of a pickup, climb over a fence and run through the back door in 6 seconds is simply fun.

Yes, the rewrite covers encumbrance in two ways. First is by weight. A character with a 16 Str can carry a rather heavy load even when packing a light load. The second is based on the size of the items carried. Just an example: Clyde has a STR of 16. In addition to basic gear (LBE, armor, rucksack, etc.) he is carrying a shotgun, an M-60 MG, an M4, 6 grenades and two fishing poles. He ends up right at the border of a light load and a medium one. Clyde decides to sneak up on some unidentified folks he runs across in the forest. While weight isn’t an issue, the assorted weapons and fishing poles are going to hang up on most every branch he passes. You see the problem.

The rules governing encumbrance are mostly common sense, but added for those who have lived their life playing video games and watching action movies.
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