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The Fleet Ship designs, strategies, and tactics.

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  #11  
Old May 15th, 2020, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainOfSteel View Post
In my opinion.

For a military's ships of the line, world's at a polity's maximum TL are going to be selected for construction if at all possible, especially if they have high shipyard capacity.

For example, in the Imperium, this means that the majority of the budgets available for spending on military ships are going to avoid worlds between TLs 1-14.
Just curious, have you ever worked in military procurement? Have you ever thought about how a world government is going to explain to its citizens that all of the money for naval construction is going to another planet that is far away, and takes months to reach?
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  #12  
Old May 16th, 2020, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainOfSteel View Post
Regina is TL-12.
Regina is TL 10 in CT material, especially the A1 Kinunir

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From TravellerMap:

A788899C
I don't use Traveller map, I use original setting sources rather than retcons based on a typo (look up the TL of Regina in the extended system generation in LBB6 - it is still TL10 on page 54 - 1983)


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Did it also state that the Kinunir's were being built at Regina? If so, and it was not an oversight, a great deal of what I understand about where ships of what TLs can be built falls apart.
Consider it shattered. General Shipyrds on Regina built TL15 Kinunir class vessels for the IN according to A1.


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J-Meson Spinal mounts are TL-15. I guess it's not impossible for one TL-15 world to make a system for another TL-15 world that is building a ship , but shipping two such spinal mounts from Trin to Glisten (for example), would take seven jumps (five two-parsec and two one-parsec), for:

2000 dTons * 1000 Cr/dTon * 7 jumps = 14 MCr

Ouch, since Glisten could have made them itself.
They are being shipped to TL11 Aramis from Inthe.
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  #13  
Old May 16th, 2020, 05:37 AM
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A1 Kinunir was published before HG'80 introduced strict TL limits, hence obviously not bound by it.

An adventure can hardly "shatter" a rule that did not exist at the time...
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  #14  
Old May 16th, 2020, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by timerover51 View Post
Have you ever thought about how a world government is going to explain to its citizens that all of the money for naval construction is going to another planet that is far away, and takes months to reach?
As per LBB5 navies procures locally. A planetary navy procures from the local planet or perhaps a nearby world. The Imperial Navy is free to procure from any Imperial world.

Hence the Imperial Navy builds TL-15 ships, provincial navies may not be so lucky.
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  #15  
Old May 16th, 2020, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flykiller View Post
ok, but most them are quite a distance away, and ships need maintenance. if you take the shipyard capacity of ten worlds and dump them on one, that one world won't be able to maintain it all. and most fleet enlisted personnel won't be interested in spending two years jumping away from their homeworld. so while the imperium has 133 or whatever high-pop high-tech worlds it can't bring them all to bear. (and that assumes they're all culturally and/or religiously willing to become an arsenal of the emperor - not a given.)
I guess most the building is done in core worlds, and then sent where they are needed, while those precious TL 15 border shipyards are mostly dedicated to such maintenance. This way, Glisten, Rhylaor or Mora would be mostly dedicated to the SM fleet maintenance, with Little true military building performed on them, as they are close enough for the whole fleet to be so maintained.

I always believed that IN fleet assets are quite rotated among several Imperium zones, so that their loyality is kept to 3I instead of becoming provincial, so to say (I already told about it time ago, this was one of the problems Roman legions faced), so, sending the newly built ships from the Core to the Borders would not be a major issue for it.

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Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
Regina is TL 10 in CT material, especially the A1 Kinunir

I don't use Traveller map, I use original setting sources rather than retcons based on a typo (look up the TL of Regina in the extended system generation in LBB6 - it is still TL10 on page 54 - 1983).
But Regina is TL 12 in SMC, also CT material...

The argument is quite old, I'm afraid...

And while A1 Kinnunir allows the TL15 BCs to be built in Regima (and, IITC TTB allows TL15 spinals to be built in Aramis TL 11 shipyards, all of this is fully against the rules given in CT:LLB5:HG ,also CT...

(I'm afraid those inconsistencies are quite common in Traveller material).

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Originally Posted by timerover51 View Post
Just curious, have you ever worked in military procurement?
Speaking of myslef, no, so take anything I say about it with a big grain of salt

Quote:
Originally Posted by timerover51 View Post
Have you ever thought about how a world government is going to explain to its citizens that all of the money for naval construction is going to another planet that is far away, and takes months to reach?
And why should it even bother to? As Imperium Works, it is not responsive to the worlds governments or citizens, as soverignty emanes from the Emperor down, not the other way.

In fact, it's not even clear how does the Imperium finances itself, so it may well do it from the Interstellar trade taxes, not from direct citizens taxes. If so, if a world government does not want to contribute, ok, it's interdiceted and he has no longer to...

And if it has complaints, they can file them to the IN squadrons Commander in the zone, who wil lbe glad to "give them some reasons to be more reasonable" (that's one of the reasons I think the 3I prefers his Naval personnel not to become attached to their deplyment provinces, and so rotates it on a quite frequent basis).
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  #16  
Old May 16th, 2020, 11:18 PM
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Do TL-13 and TL-15 systems successfully tolerate integration/connection with each other?
if they're so designed, sure.

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This isn't like delivering a finished 777 airline tail from Australia to Seattle for Boeing.
... why not? well if you don't want it to be, then ok. but this is tech 13/15 after all.

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Imperial Navy Bases are all over and they may repair or maintain navy vessels
to their capacity, sure. what is their capacity?

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can you help me out in understanding how TL-8 Louzy helps TL-D Efate
... I kinda doubt it. deckplate, staterooms, castings, switches lights and knobs, hatches and gaskets, wire and cabling, aluminum tubing, desks and chairs, bearings and braces, air tanks and pressure gage systems, bidets, O2 tanks, air ducting and vents, label plates, security cameras, batteries, cutlery and dinner trays, the little nozzles on the wet vaccs the housekeeping robots will use ...

... etc.

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how a world government is going to explain to its citizens that all of the money for naval construction is going to another planet that is far away
heh.

Quote:
Glisten, Rhylaor or Mora would be mostly dedicated to the SM fleet maintenance, with Little true military building performed on them
now that would work ...

Quote:
I always believed that IN fleet assets are quite rotated among several Imperium zones
... but that wouldn't, the enlisted wouldn't tolerate that - not likely the officers would tolerate that either. would wind up looking like the soviet army where the enlisted were in and out in a single term and officers did everything remotely important.

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so take anything I say about it with a big grain of salt
you forgot about trin, so yeah.

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As Imperium Works, it is not responsive to the worlds governments or citizens, as soverignty emanes from the Emperor down, not the other way
vox populi vox dei. don't want to lose the mandate of heaven, do you? or the kingdom of god will be taken from you and given to others ....

Last edited by flykiller; May 16th, 2020 at 11:35 PM..
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  #17  
Old May 16th, 2020, 11:33 PM
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But Regina is TL 12 in SMC, also CT material...
well my little black book "spinward marches" says 10, so retcons are just retcons.

but of course there's no reason wny tech levels can't change over time (now doesn't that open up a shipping container of worms ....).
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  #18  
Old May 17th, 2020, 07:56 AM
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Boeing outsourced a lot of components on cost cutting grounds (which I understand happened after McDonnell Douglas executives executed an internal coup), which probably contributed to a lot of it's problems.

Airbus has a distributed manufacturing programme on political grounds, but designed that from the very beginning.
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