Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > Twilight:2000 > TWILIGHT: 2000 1E/2E

TWILIGHT: 2000 1E/2E Discussion of the Twilight: 2000 from GDW.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old August 30th, 2018, 11:50 AM
Kilgs Kilgs is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Midwest America
Posts: 1,116
Gallery : 0
Visit Kilgs's Blog
Kilgs Citizen++Kilgs Citizen++Kilgs Citizen++Kilgs Citizen++
Default [Kessler Syndrome] Interesting Concept for a modern T2K scenario

The Kessler Syndrome posits that accumulation of space debris and eventual collisions will result in destruction of orbital objects such as satellites etc.

This would help a move of T2K into the modern era where you want to get rid of computers/internet etc. Satellite war or anything else renders all satellite launches unfeasible.

https://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/how...y-modern-life?
__________________
"What's the point of watching out for assassins?" Floyt grouched. "The underhanded bastards are always sneaking up on us anyways."
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old September 3rd, 2018, 02:05 AM
giant.robot's Avatar
giant.robot giant.robot is offline
Citizen: SOC-9
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 58
Gallery : 0
giant.robot Citizen
Default

Space debris isn't going to affect computers or the internet. Very little internet or voice traffic transits by satellite anymore, long distance traffic is all optical cables.

However Kessler Syndrome would be an interesting component of a Twilight War, maybe as a component of ballistic missile defense (successful or not) or as you suggest anti-satellite warfare (or both). A lack of spy satellites would impact a lot of modern military operations.

LEO is the region that would be most imperiled by anti-satellite weapons and the Kessler effect of debris. MEO and GEO would not be as easily compromised as the volume of space is just way larger and there's fewer satellites in those orbits. They're also harder to hit because much larger rockets are needed to get an ASAT system to those orbits.

So many spy and weather satellites would/could be destroyed in LEO but navigation and many communication satellites would likely be safe (relatively). Those would face a bigger danger of having their ground component destroyed or disabled.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old September 3rd, 2018, 11:50 AM
mike wightman's Avatar
mike wightman mike wightman is offline
Noble
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 16,605
Gallery : 0
mike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizen
Default

A Carrington+ solar storm could be a good way to knock out satellite infrastructure as a precursor to a Twilight war.
__________________
The beauty of CT LBB1-3 is that the ref is free to make such decisions for themselves.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old September 4th, 2018, 03:46 PM
Kilgs Kilgs is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Midwest America
Posts: 1,116
Gallery : 0
Visit Kilgs's Blog
Kilgs Citizen++Kilgs Citizen++Kilgs Citizen++Kilgs Citizen++
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by giant.robot View Post

However Kessler Syndrome would be an interesting component of a Twilight War, maybe as a component of ballistic missile defense (successful or not) or as you suggest anti-satellite warfare (or both). A lack of spy satellites would impact a lot of modern military operations.
That is what I was referencing... not the syndrome as an apocalypse, sorry I wasn't clear. A lot of times folks (and I) struggle with how to kill all the GPS/connectivity to make the T2k world properly isolated-feeling. With all the EMP shielding nowadays, the simple EMP of a nuke just doesn't cut it anymore.

A general Twilight War coupled with the syndrome helps quite a bit.
__________________
"What's the point of watching out for assassins?" Floyt grouched. "The underhanded bastards are always sneaking up on us anyways."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old September 4th, 2018, 06:47 PM
aramis's Avatar
aramis aramis is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Anchorage, AK, USofA
Posts: 29,408
Gallery : 56
Visit aramis's Blog
aramis has disabled reputation
Send a message via ICQ to aramis Send a message via AIM to aramis Send a message via Yahoo to aramis
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgs View Post
That is what I was referencing... not the syndrome as an apocalypse, sorry I wasn't clear. A lot of times folks (and I) struggle with how to kill all the GPS/connectivity to make the T2k world properly isolated-feeling. With all the EMP shielding nowadays, the simple EMP of a nuke just doesn't cut it anymore.

A general Twilight War coupled with the syndrome helps quite a bit.
The problem is that Kessler Syndrome requires a lot more density to be assured to eliminate the comm-nets and map-nets. While there are nearly a million bits and bobs up there (ISTR 300K being trackably large), the actual hit rate is pretty darned low at present.

How do you get the Kessler syndrome going?
__________________
~ Aramis
aramis.hostman.us /trav
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
Marquis of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2410)
Baron of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2231)
Knight of the Iridium Throne (CORE 1434)
Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
Knight of Deneb (Spin 2532)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
Unless there is bold red text, presume my posts to be my personal material only.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old September 5th, 2018, 04:32 AM
giant.robot's Avatar
giant.robot giant.robot is offline
Citizen: SOC-9
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 58
Gallery : 0
giant.robot Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post

How do you get the Kessler syndrome going?
It's actually something you'd have to spend a lot of resources to create in the first place. Launching tons of little impactors in polar orbits at varying altitudes would probably be the least expensive way. You'd basically want a belt of impactors crossing East-West orbits to give the maximum opportunity for impact events.

Small steel ball bearings would make good impactors I think. Most satellite buses are aluminum so steel would tear them up pretty well and would be more likely to shatter solar panels. Being conductive there's also more opportunities to cause electrical shorts as they pass through circuit boards and wiring.

The main problem is you would need literal tons of them launched into polar orbit which would need a lot of fairly hefty rockets. Polar orbits are more difficult than other LEO orbits because there's no free velocity from the rotation of the Earth so that delta-v needs to come from propellant which means less payload. The delivery vehicles would essentially be space Claymores.

To the point of helping isolate commands in a Twilight War...I think anything short of simply taking away modern technology isn't going to do much. If GPS and DSCS/GBS/WGS disappeared tomorrow it would annoy but not necessarily cripple any first world military.

HF radio would still exist and work fine, as would compasses and AGPS systems and all manner of aeronautical and maritime navigation aids. INS would also still exist so most weapons would continue to work as well since they're not wholly dependent on GPS to deliver long distance booms.

Computers add a great deal of capability to low bandwidth communications. Relatively unsophisticated radios attached to off the shelf laptops can be comms workhorses. I'm sure headquarters and signals units have non-satellite comms gear that puts ham stuff to shame.

I think the real breakdown would be in civilian infrastructure that relies on GPS and other space based systems. For instance a good deal of synchronous networking uses GPS to keep clocks adjusted.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
An Old Alternate MT Scenario LeperColony The Cleon Memorial Library 2 December 7th, 2011 12:39 AM
End of the world Scenario Blue Ghost The Lone Star 26 May 9th, 2010 01:38 AM
Idea for a traveller scenario, can't seem to get past initial concept. The Thing The Lone Star 61 February 8th, 2009 11:35 PM
Interesting scenario Spinward Scout The Lone Star 16 October 4th, 2007 04:20 AM

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010- Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.