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Old January 3rd, 2018, 05:17 PM
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Default Once the Frontier is opened in 1202…

With the Frontier Opening there will be a loud and continuous call to “send in the troops”. My thinking is there will be few Regency Army troops to send. So, how to fill the void?
1- Free lancers/contracted personnel
2- Complete mercenary groups
3- Planetary contingents from planets nearer the Frontier

Contracted personnel could be from all walks of life- retired or separated military/RQS veterans, paramilitary troops, etc. Mercenary groups will, I think, begin to play bigger roles once the colonizing begins in earnest, but at the time of the opening there could still be a bad taste in the mouths of the RQS from Antebellum times.

That leaves planetary armed forces. These forces have many advantages, especially those not quite up to the TL13-15 range. They are used to operating at a lower tech level (but still at a higher TL than 99% of the Wilds), and are not dependent on sophisticated operating and weapons systems that can’t be maintained in the environment of the Wilds without significant high tech logistical support. The troops will be used to living in more austere conditions than the TL 14-15 soldier or TL 15 marine (a TL 8 soldier/marine, living in a 20-person tent would feel in heaven if he/she had a dry place to sleep and a stove to keep them warm, while a TL 15 trooper would be horrified if they had to live like that…imagine, having to forage for firewood as a fuel source!). Any higher TL support provided by the Regency would be a bonus to them.

The Regency Senate would find it more palatable to spend the billions spent on the planetary soldiers, as it would be stimulating those economies by funding the logistics, payroll and medical care of the local soldiers and their families (ok, let’s be pragmatic- any $ not going to pay or equip the troops would end up in those Senators’ re-election funds).

I personally like the idea of the planetary forces acting similar to a National Guard, helping to augment the front-line units when needed, and helping the citizens, also when needed. But that need might be to protect them from angry indigenous people/TEDs/Vampires.

Thoughts?
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 10:40 PM
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IIRC when "opening the frontier" started, it is a one way trip. You can leave the Regency, but you can't come back.

No help is coming from the Regency at first. So help, if any, is coming from elsewhere. Leaving the other two sources until proof of success (IDK how that happens), might permit the Regency to lend a hand. Even then, Regency assets are not likely committing resources unless they are going to take over the area.

On mercenary companies, only the truly adventurous trailblazing contractors will go out if there is no permitted return (where do you spend your earnings?), though they might go once two way travel is permitted.

For planetary forces, would not the armed forces generation for Wilds planets found in Path of Tears (pg.95-97) suffice?
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 11:22 PM
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If you want to address YTU, this is all fine and well, If you speak of the OTU, the Regency does not have a frontier for very long and/or the Regency itself does not have very long. The Empress Wave fouls things up regardless of which version you accept.

The Wave is canon. It is in the Regency Sourcebook. But it was in the TNE 1248 books (they are canon, for now anyways BTW), the Mongoose Alien Module, and the Agent of the Imperium novel. While it has gone through revisions, all versions of The Wave have it enter the Spinward Marches Sector in 1202. It's speed and strength determine who lives and who dies.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 03:44 AM
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All the more reason to open the frontier and head back into the desolate Imperium, you stand a chance against cyborgs, killer robots, zombie hordes and jump kraken.

This is what happens when you don't think through a retcon and don't speak to the people behind the original idea.

Original intent behind the empress wave in TNE was to re-invigorate psionics, provide a definitive link between psionics and jump space, cause chaos within the Zhodani so that the Regency can maintain its mary-sue status. It may even have been a solvable problem - moving at light speed it would take a century to wash over the Spinward Marches. Grandfather may be affected by it so he may come out of hiding to help - or at least point people towards a solution (a small group of people like a group of adventures rather than the massed marching band of the Imperium).

The mongoose version moving at variable speed and moving FTL contradicts this, The empress wave could wash over the entire domain in only a decade.

I'm not sure yet if the AotI version is FTL - if it is then MWM has broken one of his own commandments for the setting, no FTL communication.

So three choices if you want to maintain retcon canon:
1 - the empress wave is going to destroy the Regency and there is nothing you can do about it, run away.
2 - the empress wave is going to wash over the domain, and where it has gone only I will remain.
3 - a group of Travellers can do something about it, with or without alien assistance, Grandfather's help or some such.

The final choice is to stick with the TNE setting. If you haven't done so yet you should hunt out the extensive interview Dave Nilsen did on this very web site, he filled in lots of background to TNE.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
All the more reason to open the frontier and head back into the desolate Imperium, you stand a chance against cyborgs, killer robots, zombie hordes and jump kraken.

This is what happens when you don't think through a retcon and don't speak to the people behind the original idea.
Which is why I bring up 1248. 1248 still is canon and it is not a retcon. When I say for now, it is directly because of the speed and level of destructiveness that will determine how much of 1248 remains canon. As far as ignoring retcons, it does not matter as for the OTU. Just remember this relationship:
Intellectual property Owner > licensees, fans, etc.
So if Han shot first, well that's the official story now, whether we like it or not, isn't it? Or did Greedo?

1248 version of the Wave was written with direct attention to its predecessor TNE, is compatible and is canon. As such, these events give an idea of the size of the trailing frontier.
  • The new Vilani Empire had formed and in 1205-1207 has a quick war with the Regency. After the war, the trailing part of Deneb Sector and spinward portion of Corridor end up forming a buffer zone of sorts.
  • Because the Regency refused to recognize the Vilani as "The Imperium", this leads to the Vilani making the Capital Run in 1208 and to their horror find out that Lucan is alive and well in the Black Curtain. OK, well, uploaded and well. He had succeeded in dominating Virus. Many of the Lucan/Virus fleets are activated to destroy Vland.
  • Getting invaded by the Vilani causes a lack of confidence, the Regency begins factionalizing. Despite this, the Regency comes to the aid of the Vilani. Vland is Scoured anyways, but the Empire survives.
  • The weakening of Regency asset, assasination of High Regent Carranda in 1212 and the Regency Capital Run in 1219 set the stage for the Regency seccessions of the 1220s and 1230s.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 06:43 AM
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Martin has commented that the Mongoose and AotI changes to the Empress Wave invalidate what he wrote for 1248.

If the wave ripples across the Regency at FTL speeds then the events of 1248 can not have happened, because the Regency has gone.

Also, Martin's version is not quite what Dave Nilsen had in mind - you can read up on it if you search this site for his interview.

Either Mongoose or MWM will have to give a definitive answer to certain issues at some point:
when will the now FTL empress wave actually flatten the Spinward Marches?
will the Rebellion happen in the MATU?
will the Rebellion happen if Bland is around to prevent it - or is it a necessity from his point of view - or is it just something so unforeseen that even he can not deal with it?
will Virus be released in the MATU
will Virus be released if Bland is around to stop it - or is it a necessity from his point of view - or is it just something so unforeseen that even he can not deal with it?
will there be a collapse and a rise of Lucan's black curtain in the MATU?
etc.

It's one of the reasons I dislike retcons to settings, especially badly thought out, poorly researched and consequence ignorant retcons.

Hopefully the Galaxiad will just move the setting forward so that all this becomes moot anyway.

Anyway - this is a TNE only thread so I would go with what is written in the TNE book, Dave Nilsen's revelations, and ignore all retcons, future history and the like. That said a more threatening wave spurring the Regency to sending intrepid explorers (PCs) on a potential suicide mission to rediscover the Imperium...
(I'd still have the wave as something Grandfather can help a PC party solve in the long run, players like to be involved in setting changing stuff, even if it is a TPK by the end )
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Old January 4th, 2018, 10:55 AM
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This is exactly why I ask if it is YTU or OTU, because if YTU, anything goes. If it is OTU however, you need to accept that the OTU is improvisational theater...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
Martin has commented that the Mongoose and AotI changes to the Empress Wave invalidate what he wrote for 1248.
If the wave ripples across the Regency at FTL speeds then the events of 1248 can not have happened, because the Regency has gone.
Also, Martin's version is not quite what Dave Nilsen had in mind - you can read up on it if you search this site for his interview.
Keep in mind the 1248 books are my favorite supplements and my second most favorite time period. I can appreciate them as separate bits of their time and in context as part of the whole of Traveller now. MJD is correct. As a whole, the two versions of the wave are incompatible. But to me it does not matter what either says because
Intellectual property Owner > licensees, fans, etc.
Still, I am working on a consolidated post-assassination timeline. Don McKinney did not do it cause he did not like the assassination in the first place.
Quote:
Either Mongoose or MWM will have to give a definitive answer to certain issues at some point:
when will the now FTL empress wave actually flatten the Spinward Marches?
will the Rebellion happen in the MATU?
will the Rebellion happen if Bland is around to prevent it - or is it a necessity from his point of view - or is it just something so unforeseen that even he can not deal with it?
will Virus be released in the MATU
will Virus be released if Bland is around to stop it - or is it a necessity from his point of view - or is it just something so unforeseen that even he can not deal with it?
will there be a collapse and a rise of Lucan's black curtain in the MATU?
etc.
Some of it is already in place, officially. The Traveller 5 Core Rulebook v 5.09 page 17 has the "The Important Eras of History" chart with
The Rebellion - 1116IC
The Virus Era - 1130IC
The New Era - 1200IC
The New New Era - 1248 IC
The Far Far Future - 1902 IC
The years given are "typical". Since Traveller 5 seems to be the ruleset Galaxiad will be published under Rebellion, Virus, TNE and 1248 happen in some manner or is the chart a mistake/incorrect/non-canon? On my part I am doing the timeline exactly to address these questions. 1248 has lots of events with details, details, details that occur before either version of the Wave hits the Marches in 1202. Many can happen regardless of how fast or strong the Wave is. Your ripples in the pond analogy is good because the focal center point 1202. While the wave itself originates near the Glalactic Core in the -7000s or -9000s depending on speed, all agree that it enters in 1202. So events before 1202 are more likely to happen as the wave in either form cannot impact the event in a significant manner. For example the transition of the Reformation Coalition to the Freedom League likely happens as even the fast deadly Wave does not hit the Old Expanses until the 1320s or so. Lucan can get uploaded in the 1150s. And so on...
Quote:
Anyway - this is a TNE only thread so I would go with what is written in the TNE book,
Marc says it is TNE. Marc's company, FFE. sells 1248 as Traveller: The New Era-2CDROM if you read the page, it is "The Extended Canon", not a lesser term like "Apocrypha" or under its own grouping. Traveller 5 calls 1248 The New New Era, true
Quote:
...Dave Nilsen's revelations, and ignore all retcons, future history and the like. That said a more threatening wave spurring the Regency to sending intrepid explorers (PCs) on a potential suicide mission to rediscover the Imperium...
(I'd still have the wave as something Grandfather can help a PC party solve in the long run, players like to be involved in setting changing stuff, even if it is a TPK by the end )
or some other deus ex machina. Maybe that is why the Droyne undergo population explosions in Regency and the League in the 1248 books. The are forcibly casting Chirper worlds too.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 01:07 PM
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Going back to your original question Doug...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougamlin View Post
With the Frontier Opening there will be a loud and continuous call to “send in the troops”. My thinking is there will be few Regency Army troops to send. So, how to fill the void?
....
I personally like the idea of the planetary forces acting similar to a National Guard, helping to augment the front-line units when needed, and helping the citizens, also when needed. But that need might be to protect them from angry indigenous people/TEDs/Vampires.

Thoughts?
Using the additional horsepower of planetary forces is a nice alternative, but what leverage needs to be applied to have a planetary government offer or give them up? Have you thought about a compelling political or economic imperative that would convince them do go along with the plan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Brazil View Post
IIRC when "opening the frontier" started, it is a one way trip. You can leave the Regency, but you can't come back.
....
On mercenary companies, only the truly adventurous trailblazing contractors will go out if there is no permitted return (where do you spend your earnings?), though they might go once two way travel is permitted.

For planetary forces, would not the armed forces generation for Wilds planets found in Path of Tears (pg.95-97) suffice?
What Nathan said. If it's a one way trip, then planetary forces may still be on the table, but they may be soldier-settlers, offered new territory out there in the wilds. That would require careful selection of the places they're settled, otherwise you get the same problems that arose during European expansion on Terra and Vilani expansion in the 1I, and that could be pretty morally shaky ground for the Regency to go treading through.
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Old January 5th, 2018, 02:04 AM
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Dave's vision and 1248 are not a 100% mesh. When in conflict, go with 1248.
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Old May 19th, 2020, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
Original intent behind the empress wave in TNE was to re-invigorate psionics, provide a definitive link between psionics and jump space, cause chaos within the Zhodani so that the Regency can maintain its mary-sue status. It may even have been a solvable problem - moving at light speed it would take a century to wash over the Spinward Marches. Grandfather may be affected by it so he may come out of hiding to help - or at least point people towards a solution (a small group of people like a group of adventures rather than the massed marching band of the Imperium).

So three choices if you want to maintain retcon canon:
1 - the empress wave is going to destroy the Regency and there is nothing you can do about it, run away.
2 - the empress wave is going to wash over the domain, and where it has gone only I will remain.
3 - a group of Travellers can do something about it, with or without alien assistance, Grandfather's help or some such.
There is a 4th Option. The Zhodani (Nobles=really susceptible) managed to cross the wave with several core expeditions before they even knew it was there. So getting some of the most vulnerable population over the line is clearly possible in jump-space. All of the population is a larger issue and one the Regency has been ignoring for some time.
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