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MegaTraveller Discuss of the MegaTraveller ruleset and the Rebellion Milieu

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  #21  
Old March 23rd, 2005, 11:58 AM
kaladorn kaladorn is offline
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Two points:

The individuals had issues which would necessitate them being removed, but not necessarily their factions.

The Solomani might well have internal issues that draw their focus inwards.

Another point to consider: Our perceptions of Dulinor and Lucan and what extents they need to go to are married to when we tree-off this alternate history. If it is early enough after the Assassination, then maybe they aren't so polarized that they can't continue as heads of their polities. They get more polarized into 'win or die' as the years go by.
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  #22  
Old March 23rd, 2005, 01:25 PM
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daryen daryen is offline
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I don't know that moving the point of departure up changes anything for Dulinor or Lucan. Assuming we don't change their characters (which presents a plethora of new options), they are both pretty much set to run their course.

Lucan is flat out nuts. Killing his brother somehow unhinged him. After that, he was making very few rational decisions. If he doesn't kill Varian, then who knows what happens?

Dulinor is committed the moment his bullet hits the Emperor/clone. Once that happens, he must either succeed in taking the throne, or his life, legacy, dynasty, everything for him, is forfeit.

The only thing I can think of changing that would make much difference is to change Lucan into a rational human being. Of course, if he is rational, then he gets confirmed, the other parties get in line behind him, and the Rebellion never happens. Instead we get the Second Ilelish Revolt.
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  #23  
Old March 23rd, 2005, 01:25 PM
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daryen daryen is offline
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I don't know that moving the point of departure up changes anything for Dulinor or Lucan. Assuming we don't change their characters (which presents a plethora of new options), they are both pretty much set to run their course.

Lucan is flat out nuts. Killing his brother somehow unhinged him. After that, he was making very few rational decisions. If he doesn't kill Varian, then who knows what happens?

Dulinor is committed the moment his bullet hits the Emperor/clone. Once that happens, he must either succeed in taking the throne, or his life, legacy, dynasty, everything for him, is forfeit.

The only thing I can think of changing that would make much difference is to change Lucan into a rational human being. Of course, if he is rational, then he gets confirmed, the other parties get in line behind him, and the Rebellion never happens. Instead we get the Second Ilelish Revolt.
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  #24  
Old March 23rd, 2005, 01:25 PM
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daryen daryen is offline
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I don't know that moving the point of departure up changes anything for Dulinor or Lucan. Assuming we don't change their characters (which presents a plethora of new options), they are both pretty much set to run their course.

Lucan is flat out nuts. Killing his brother somehow unhinged him. After that, he was making very few rational decisions. If he doesn't kill Varian, then who knows what happens?

Dulinor is committed the moment his bullet hits the Emperor/clone. Once that happens, he must either succeed in taking the throne, or his life, legacy, dynasty, everything for him, is forfeit.

The only thing I can think of changing that would make much difference is to change Lucan into a rational human being. Of course, if he is rational, then he gets confirmed, the other parties get in line behind him, and the Rebellion never happens. Instead we get the Second Ilelish Revolt.
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  #25  
Old March 23rd, 2005, 03:20 PM
kaladorn kaladorn is offline
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Ah, Daryen, but that's sort of what I was getting at. The character is established over time. Before the MT setting's first page, I'd never heard of Dulinor or Lucan. Before the various DGP articles outlining their policies and opinions about one another, I only had vague feelings about them. Before subsequent developments, I wouldn't have considered Lucan a total fruitloop. So yes, in effect, I am suggesting an edit. If we're editing around the classical end (or lack thereof) of the Rebellion, maybe some character edits fit into that (assuming we don't have them killed).

Is he nuts? Did killing his Bro do it or was he always a bit unhinged? Or is he just hyper ambitious and a bit sociopathic/psychopathic? He may just not really care much about his brother, other than that 'he got in the way'.

Dulinor is only 'forfeit' if anyone can take him out. If the rest of the Imperial fragments were to go their own way, sure, he'd be unwelcome in Lucanite territory, but there are arguable precedents for the legality of his actions and I'm not sure Norris would give his polity grief it if approached them on good terms. Sure, Norris might not approve, but if having peace meant preventing the backsliding of the overall Imperial population base, even if it does mean they are temporarily broken into other polities, he'd probably be okay with that.

Sure, Dulinor personally might consider himself a failure and choose to step down or pop himself off. But he might just accept that he failed and revert to worrying about his people, the ostensible underlying reason for his actions.

When I have some time (this weekend if I have some cycles), I'll try to sketch out an alternative timeline and some events/changes that might make this a reasonable outcome.
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  #26  
Old March 23rd, 2005, 03:20 PM
kaladorn kaladorn is offline
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Ah, Daryen, but that's sort of what I was getting at. The character is established over time. Before the MT setting's first page, I'd never heard of Dulinor or Lucan. Before the various DGP articles outlining their policies and opinions about one another, I only had vague feelings about them. Before subsequent developments, I wouldn't have considered Lucan a total fruitloop. So yes, in effect, I am suggesting an edit. If we're editing around the classical end (or lack thereof) of the Rebellion, maybe some character edits fit into that (assuming we don't have them killed).

Is he nuts? Did killing his Bro do it or was he always a bit unhinged? Or is he just hyper ambitious and a bit sociopathic/psychopathic? He may just not really care much about his brother, other than that 'he got in the way'.

Dulinor is only 'forfeit' if anyone can take him out. If the rest of the Imperial fragments were to go their own way, sure, he'd be unwelcome in Lucanite territory, but there are arguable precedents for the legality of his actions and I'm not sure Norris would give his polity grief it if approached them on good terms. Sure, Norris might not approve, but if having peace meant preventing the backsliding of the overall Imperial population base, even if it does mean they are temporarily broken into other polities, he'd probably be okay with that.

Sure, Dulinor personally might consider himself a failure and choose to step down or pop himself off. But he might just accept that he failed and revert to worrying about his people, the ostensible underlying reason for his actions.

When I have some time (this weekend if I have some cycles), I'll try to sketch out an alternative timeline and some events/changes that might make this a reasonable outcome.
__________________
"Tell them, that from this place we will deliver notice to the parliaments of conquerors that a line has been drawn against the darkness. And we will hold that line, .. no matter the cost." -- Cpt. Sheridan "The Long, Twilight Struggle"
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  #27  
Old March 23rd, 2005, 03:20 PM
kaladorn kaladorn is offline
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Ah, Daryen, but that's sort of what I was getting at. The character is established over time. Before the MT setting's first page, I'd never heard of Dulinor or Lucan. Before the various DGP articles outlining their policies and opinions about one another, I only had vague feelings about them. Before subsequent developments, I wouldn't have considered Lucan a total fruitloop. So yes, in effect, I am suggesting an edit. If we're editing around the classical end (or lack thereof) of the Rebellion, maybe some character edits fit into that (assuming we don't have them killed).

Is he nuts? Did killing his Bro do it or was he always a bit unhinged? Or is he just hyper ambitious and a bit sociopathic/psychopathic? He may just not really care much about his brother, other than that 'he got in the way'.

Dulinor is only 'forfeit' if anyone can take him out. If the rest of the Imperial fragments were to go their own way, sure, he'd be unwelcome in Lucanite territory, but there are arguable precedents for the legality of his actions and I'm not sure Norris would give his polity grief it if approached them on good terms. Sure, Norris might not approve, but if having peace meant preventing the backsliding of the overall Imperial population base, even if it does mean they are temporarily broken into other polities, he'd probably be okay with that.

Sure, Dulinor personally might consider himself a failure and choose to step down or pop himself off. But he might just accept that he failed and revert to worrying about his people, the ostensible underlying reason for his actions.

When I have some time (this weekend if I have some cycles), I'll try to sketch out an alternative timeline and some events/changes that might make this a reasonable outcome.
__________________
"Tell them, that from this place we will deliver notice to the parliaments of conquerors that a line has been drawn against the darkness. And we will hold that line, .. no matter the cost." -- Cpt. Sheridan "The Long, Twilight Struggle"
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  #28  
Old March 23rd, 2005, 05:20 PM
alanb alanb is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by kaladorn:
The character is established over time. Before the MT setting's first page, I'd never heard of Dulinor or Lucan. Before the various DGP articles outlining their policies and opinions about one another, I only had vague feelings about them. Before subsequent developments, I wouldn't have considered Lucan a total fruitloop.
First of all: nobody had heard of Dulinor or Lucan before MT. They were created then.

Rebellion Sourcebook is the original source for Lucan's character. It emphasises: the ends justify the means, and policy comes from the fickle mind of the Emperor. It also calls him a spoilt brat.

So Lucan began as a despot ruling by arbitrary whim. That can't/shouldn't be changed.

Later on, of course, he appears to have deteriorated further. This bit could be lost.

I can't see him accepting peace. I _can_ see him being assassinated by his own supporters.

As for Dulinor...

I've always felt Dulinor's big weakness lay in the contradiction between his supposedly democratic ideals and the fact that his support lies in the Imperial apparatus, that is, the nobility. His reforms, if actually implemented, would have the effect of reducing the power of his key supporters, which would give them reason to reconsider their support.

The result of this is that his reforms are likely to be stillborn, or at least hopelessly compromised. Even so, his rhetoric about them is likely disturb at least some of his nobles...

If he actually tries to implement his reforms seriously, he is guaranteed to run into opposition from the nobility. That is, from his Admirals, senior bureaucrats, Subsector Dukes, his Intelligence chiefs, the commander of his bodyguard, and so on.

Essentially, he has the choice of either facing down a coup, or backing off and becoming a lame duck "Emperor".

And even if he succeeds, the results aren't likely to be what people expect. His reforms would inevitably shift power even further towards the rulers of the high population worlds, at the expense of the other worlds and the Imperium itself. At the same time, depending on how "democratic" you want to read his intentions as being, he is trying to replace these rulers.

This is a recipe for a terrible snafu.

Norris was able to get away with it under the whip of Virus. There was doubtless more to the story than a simple decree, but we will never know the details.

It's a pretty safe bet that Dulinor's agenda would either be thrown out the window, lead to massive conflict, and/or possibly result in his fall.

The interaction and chronological synchronisation of that with the processes at work in Lucan's Imperium can be left to the scholar...
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  #29  
Old March 23rd, 2005, 05:20 PM
alanb alanb is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by kaladorn:
The character is established over time. Before the MT setting's first page, I'd never heard of Dulinor or Lucan. Before the various DGP articles outlining their policies and opinions about one another, I only had vague feelings about them. Before subsequent developments, I wouldn't have considered Lucan a total fruitloop.
First of all: nobody had heard of Dulinor or Lucan before MT. They were created then.

Rebellion Sourcebook is the original source for Lucan's character. It emphasises: the ends justify the means, and policy comes from the fickle mind of the Emperor. It also calls him a spoilt brat.

So Lucan began as a despot ruling by arbitrary whim. That can't/shouldn't be changed.

Later on, of course, he appears to have deteriorated further. This bit could be lost.

I can't see him accepting peace. I _can_ see him being assassinated by his own supporters.

As for Dulinor...

I've always felt Dulinor's big weakness lay in the contradiction between his supposedly democratic ideals and the fact that his support lies in the Imperial apparatus, that is, the nobility. His reforms, if actually implemented, would have the effect of reducing the power of his key supporters, which would give them reason to reconsider their support.

The result of this is that his reforms are likely to be stillborn, or at least hopelessly compromised. Even so, his rhetoric about them is likely disturb at least some of his nobles...

If he actually tries to implement his reforms seriously, he is guaranteed to run into opposition from the nobility. That is, from his Admirals, senior bureaucrats, Subsector Dukes, his Intelligence chiefs, the commander of his bodyguard, and so on.

Essentially, he has the choice of either facing down a coup, or backing off and becoming a lame duck "Emperor".

And even if he succeeds, the results aren't likely to be what people expect. His reforms would inevitably shift power even further towards the rulers of the high population worlds, at the expense of the other worlds and the Imperium itself. At the same time, depending on how "democratic" you want to read his intentions as being, he is trying to replace these rulers.

This is a recipe for a terrible snafu.

Norris was able to get away with it under the whip of Virus. There was doubtless more to the story than a simple decree, but we will never know the details.

It's a pretty safe bet that Dulinor's agenda would either be thrown out the window, lead to massive conflict, and/or possibly result in his fall.

The interaction and chronological synchronisation of that with the processes at work in Lucan's Imperium can be left to the scholar...
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  #30  
Old March 23rd, 2005, 05:20 PM
alanb alanb is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by kaladorn:
The character is established over time. Before the MT setting's first page, I'd never heard of Dulinor or Lucan. Before the various DGP articles outlining their policies and opinions about one another, I only had vague feelings about them. Before subsequent developments, I wouldn't have considered Lucan a total fruitloop.
First of all: nobody had heard of Dulinor or Lucan before MT. They were created then.

Rebellion Sourcebook is the original source for Lucan's character. It emphasises: the ends justify the means, and policy comes from the fickle mind of the Emperor. It also calls him a spoilt brat.

So Lucan began as a despot ruling by arbitrary whim. That can't/shouldn't be changed.

Later on, of course, he appears to have deteriorated further. This bit could be lost.

I can't see him accepting peace. I _can_ see him being assassinated by his own supporters.

As for Dulinor...

I've always felt Dulinor's big weakness lay in the contradiction between his supposedly democratic ideals and the fact that his support lies in the Imperial apparatus, that is, the nobility. His reforms, if actually implemented, would have the effect of reducing the power of his key supporters, which would give them reason to reconsider their support.

The result of this is that his reforms are likely to be stillborn, or at least hopelessly compromised. Even so, his rhetoric about them is likely disturb at least some of his nobles...

If he actually tries to implement his reforms seriously, he is guaranteed to run into opposition from the nobility. That is, from his Admirals, senior bureaucrats, Subsector Dukes, his Intelligence chiefs, the commander of his bodyguard, and so on.

Essentially, he has the choice of either facing down a coup, or backing off and becoming a lame duck "Emperor".

And even if he succeeds, the results aren't likely to be what people expect. His reforms would inevitably shift power even further towards the rulers of the high population worlds, at the expense of the other worlds and the Imperium itself. At the same time, depending on how "democratic" you want to read his intentions as being, he is trying to replace these rulers.

This is a recipe for a terrible snafu.

Norris was able to get away with it under the whip of Virus. There was doubtless more to the story than a simple decree, but we will never know the details.

It's a pretty safe bet that Dulinor's agenda would either be thrown out the window, lead to massive conflict, and/or possibly result in his fall.

The interaction and chronological synchronisation of that with the processes at work in Lucan's Imperium can be left to the scholar...
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