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  #31  
Old March 6th, 2014, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rancke View Post
What sort of "fun"? Why the quotation marks? Liked it as a concept or as a feature in your games?
It's never been central to the plot, but I've run games where the low lottery has been an enjoyable aspect of gameplay.

In one game, I had these religious zealots protesting at the starport against the use of the low berth.

In CT, I usually don't make apologies for survival rate. I play it as a non-mastered technology employed by the desperate.
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Old March 6th, 2014, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Garyius2003 View Post
1 in 36 chance of dying when the character is warmed outside of a doctor staffed medical facility is RPG drama, 30% no matter what is crazy suicide and unsupportable when you can cram people into staterooms with fast drugs for the same life support load, an almost 100% chance of living, and the same basic price.

Frozen Watch? "Gunner's Mate 2c, we are putting you on the frozen watch. Good news, you have a 60% chance of living to be warmed up." GM2 swings by the arms room, grabs a few grenades and a laser rifle and two packs, kills every single officer at the command before running for Startown to hide.

Enlisted pilots and engineers would just hijack a support freighter or Gazelle and run for the edge of the Marches.
THAT, in truth and sincerity, is the most rational thought on this topic yet exhibited.

I know nobody is getting me into a low berth other than a CERTAIN DEATH EMERGENCY.
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  #33  
Old March 6th, 2014, 06:08 PM
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In my TU there are (at least) three different ways to put someone into low berth.
A: No medical supervision (you get into the berth yourself and press a button).
B: Routine supervision (Competent med-tech spends 10 minutes supervising up to four people at a time).
C: Expert supervision (Medical team in a fully-equipped hospital spends hours putting you into low berth).
Reviving with no significant risk of death1 depends on the way you were put into the low berth.
A: Medical team in a fully-equipped hospital spends hours reviving you.
B: Competent med-tech spends 10 minutes supervising the revival up to four people at a time.
C: Unsupervised revival works fine.
Method C is used for putting people into the frozen watch. Method B is used by starships. Method A is for those emergencies.
1 There IS a small risk of death, but it's far below the granularity of the game rules and firmly into the realm of referee fiat (a.k.a. plot device territory).
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  #34  
Old March 6th, 2014, 09:39 PM
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We've talked about this before, but in the CT OTU, berths must be fully automated with some over-ride control by a paramedic.

Why do I say that? In CT, anybody can revive a person from lowberth. No skill needed. That leads me to believe it's just "PRESS HERE" and let the bed do the rest.

Now, if a person has Med-2 or better, there must be some limited over-ride control when bring a person out of cold sleep (which really isn't "cold", I don't think, but could be, I guess) because of the +1 modifier. Note that the modifier doesn't get any better whether the character is Med-2 or Med-5. It's still only a +1. So, that's why I say limited control over the process, with most of it being automated by the bed.

As I said above, I think (by deduction) that the low berth process has got to be a newer technology. I also think that there has got to be a safer way to do it than what is available to the general public because of the Frozen Watch on starships. I doubt their rate of death is as high as that of low passengers on commercial ships and tramp freighters.
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  #35  
Old March 8th, 2014, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supplement Four View Post
I play it as a non-mastered technology employed by the desperate.
I guess after several TLs of developement it's hard to talk about a non-mastered technology. It appears at TL 9, so my take is that by TL 15 it should be quite mastered, and I agree with the side that tells such a risk would have been forbiden except in dire emergencies (to keep someone from certain death)

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Originally Posted by Garyius2003 View Post
Frozen Watch? "Gunner's Mate 2c, we are putting you on the frozen watch. Good news, you have a 60% chance of living to be warmed up." GM2 swings by the arms room, grabs a few grenades and a laser rifle and two packs, kills every single officer at the command before running for Startown to hide.
Fully agreed. Frozen Watch makes little sense when you will only have about 85% of the people you try to revive (assuming they all have good endurance and a decent medic is defreezing them).

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Originally Posted by rancke View Post
In my TU there are (at least) three different ways to put someone into low berth.
A: No medical supervision (you get into the berth yourself and press a button).
B: Routine supervision (Competent med-tech spends 10 minutes supervising up to four people at a time).
C: Expert supervision (Medical team in a fully-equipped hospital spends hours putting you into low berth).
Reviving with no significant risk of death1 depends on the way you were put into the low berth.
A: Medical team in a fully-equipped hospital spends hours reviving you.
B: Competent med-tech spends 10 minutes supervising the revival up to four people at a time.
C: Unsupervised revival works fine.
Method C is used for putting people into the frozen watch. Method B is used by starships. Method A is for those emergencies.
1 There IS a small risk of death, but it's far below the granularity of the game rules and firmly into the realm of referee fiat (a.k.a. plot device territory).
Hans
IIRC in an article appeared on a Digest (not sure if TD or MTD, but it was for MT, where cold berth is quite more safe) told that for frozen watch more time was devoted to put the crewmembers in cold sleep (cautious task) in order to be able to revive them quickly (hasty task), while emergency low berth used exactly the opposite, they were ready for hasty put people on them, but took more time to revive them safely.

I guess this assumption could be exported to MgT (and other versions) too...
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Last edited by McPerth; April 23rd, 2014 at 02:22 PM.. Reason: typos
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  #36  
Old March 8th, 2014, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
I guess after several TLs of developement it's hard to talk about a non-mastered technology. It appears at TL 9, so my take is that by TL 15 it should be quite masteres, and I agree with the side that tells such a risk would have been forbiden except in dire emergencies (to keep someone from certain death)
It's a fair point you make about the TL-9 to TL-15 spread (TL-9 does seem a bit low). But, don't forget that there are things people don't understand about the Jump Drive either. Like wind and a sail, they don't know everything about how it works. They just know that it does work. And, the Jump drive has just a long a spread in tech.

And, if it were forbidden, it wouldn't be in the (CT) rules, or it would be described as such.

Therefore, some other answer has to apply to the question, "Why do standard low berths in the OTU have such high death rates."

It's a fact that they do, at least in the CT OTU, so the question is not whether it is or is not legal. The question is: Why is it legal?
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  #37  
Old March 8th, 2014, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Supplement Four View Post
Therefore, some other answer has to apply to the question, "Why do standard low berths in the OTU have such high death rates."
My answer1: They don't. The original OTU death rates were retconned in every Traveller version after CT (Or possibly only most versions). The current (MgT) death rates only appear high until one realizes that the task is Routine, making it possible for a decent medic (Medic-2, Int 8+) doing a cautious job to do it without any risk at all (Provided they examine prospective passengers and refuse those with too low endurance).
1 Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.

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  #38  
Old March 8th, 2014, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rancke View Post
My answer1: They don't.
I can certainly see a House Rule that would change survival rate. Maybe a DM based on TL? Or, it would be easy to allow greater DMs for Medic skill (and therefore making the berth less automated and more dependent on the professional supervising the wake).
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  #39  
Old March 8th, 2014, 02:33 PM
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I can certainly see a House Rule that would change survival rate.
No need for house rules. I'm quite satisfied with MgT's 100% survival rate for properly conducted revivals.

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Maybe a DM based on TL? Or, it would be easy to allow greater DMs for Medic skill (and therefore making the berth less automated and more dependent on the professional supervising the wake).
I noticed to my surprise that MgT doesn't deal with the issue of equipment quality. A house rule might give the standard TL9 Low Berth a -1, the standard TL11 berth +0, the standard TL13 berth +1, and the standard TL15 berth +2. Or some other progression.

And minusses to badly maintained low berths, of course.


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  #40  
Old March 8th, 2014, 02:42 PM
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Maybe someone should ask Marc a very simple question - in the 3rd Imperium setting is there a low lottery because people die in low berths?

It was a direct rip off from the Dumarest novels, but in those it was explained that the cold berths were designed for livestock not people, so only the desperate would risk it.

It would be very odd if the Imperium setting, which was designed as a sandbox for the CT rules, deliberately omitted stuff in the core rules.

What next, a retcon to the death during character generation?
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