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  #21  
Old June 13th, 2019, 02:39 PM
CaptRet CaptRet is offline
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Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
From MgT2:CB, page 126:



While not specifying it, I guess the same rules should apply to those nearby the FGMP hit. See that nearby is quite an ambiguous term, though...

So, I'd say using FGMP is as insane as using tac nukes. See also this old thread I started about other considerations in OTU...
I'm old enough to remember the discussion related to the Davy Crocket tactical nuke - the destructive radius exceeded the weapons firing range. And as for the concept of employing nuclear mines in West Germany in the event of a Soviet invasion, the Germans were (unsurprisingly) none to keen on the idea. [Gives new meaning to the phrase, "we had to destroy the village to save it."]
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  #22  
Old June 13th, 2019, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by CaptRet View Post
"But like any energy, if you have multiple sources of that radiation, you add them up.
If you have twice as many light bulbs, it's twice as bright."

Whartung, indeed, the point you make about adding up the rads from the various sources (shots) of radiation is exactly what I was driving at in my initial posting. Even with protective battledress/combat armor/HEV suits, if multiple fusion weapons are firing (or if the same weapon fires multiple times) in the same firefight, then that location will become so irradiated as to overcome the protection of even this armor. So for infantry to use the FGMP, unless there is only one firing very few times, is suicidal. Mkes mor sense for them to use the PGMP, gauss rifles, heavy laser rifles, and tactical AT missle launchers.
If the zone becomes irradiated, not contaminated with radioactive materials, there will be no problem after the radiation source has ended (think on an X-ray machine: while it irradiates, it is not dangerous when turned off).

If each shoot radiaton can be stopped by your BD, they will not be additive, as it affects each hit (again, when comparing it with the X-ray machine, the leaded cristal that alows the radiologist to see the patient (or the leaded smock he wears) stops each shoot's radiation, while the cummulative radiaton of a day's work, if shoot at once, whould probably not be stopped).
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Last edited by McPerth; August 1st, 2019 at 10:50 PM.. Reason: typos
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  #23  
Old June 13th, 2019, 04:50 PM
AnotherDilbert AnotherDilbert is offline
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Originally Posted by whartung View Post
But like any energy, if you have multiple sources of that radiation, you add them up.
Mongoose handling of radiation is, ehum, highly simplified. By RAW each instance of irradiation is handled separately, as far as I understand.
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Old June 13th, 2019, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Condottiere View Post
Shock and awe.

Combination flame thrower and light machine gun.

Hmm, more like support rifle spitting HEAT round bolts that maintain cohesion for x hundred meters.
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Old June 13th, 2019, 09:20 PM
chipla chipla is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
From MgT2:CB, page 126:



While not specifying it, I guess the same rules should apply to those nearby the FGMP hit. See that nearby is quite an ambiguous term, though...

So, I'd say using FGMP is as insane as using tac nukes. See also this old thread I started about other considerations in OTU...

In MgT 2e FGMPs inflict between 40 and 240rads (per the radiation weapon rules). At the upper limit this equates to just under half a lethal dose of radiation (5greys/500rads). Little Boy released almost 10 greys (based on absorption in the bones of people less than a mile from the impact). Tac nukes are between 24x and 12x less powerful in yield but this only affects the radius of the dosage zones not the dosages emitted the smallest radius I could find was for a 1kt nuke (about five times the yield of a SADM but at the upper limit of tac nukes) that was lethal at about 800m from point of detonation) FGMPs have a radius of 20m from the firer and 20m from the target. Tac-nukes are much worse than FGMPs on a detonation by detonation basis.

Long lasting effects wise neither are particularly bad (though a surface detonated tac-nuke will of course irradiate more ground than a FGMP which is basically an airburst). Regardless the 7:10 rule of thumb is worth remembering 14 days (or so) after the blast you’re at only 1rad/hour above your base line. After a year or so the area won’t be any more dangerous than the rest of the planet.

As a comment on the thread you linked - the reason the 3I bans nukes and not FGMPs is to do with TL and cost. You can make fission nukes late TL6 and for high TL societies they’re trivially easy to make, and to make at a scale that is insanely destructive (the new Russian Poseidon has a 200MT yield). A FGMP is complex to make and can only be done (at great cost) by the highest tech societies within the 3I and for all that it would suck to be shot by one they can’t wipe out cities that easily. (Aside ofc from starship scale but most starship weapons are WMDs tbh)
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  #26  
Old June 14th, 2019, 07:22 AM
AnotherDilbert AnotherDilbert is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipla View Post
Long lasting effects wise neither are particularly bad (though a surface detonated tac-nuke will of course irradiate more ground than a FGMP which is basically an airburst). Regardless the 7:10 rule of thumb is worth remembering 14 days (or so) after the blast you’re at only 1rad/hour above your base line. After a year or so the area won’t be any more dangerous than the rest of the planet.
There is, as far as I know, no reason to believe fusion guns would leave much radiation behind.

The lingering radiation from nukes are mostly remains of the weapon, not an effect of the initial burst of radiation.
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  #27  
Old June 14th, 2019, 07:40 AM
chipla chipla is offline
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Originally Posted by AnotherDilbert View Post
There is, as far as I know, no reason to believe fusion guns would leave much radiation behind.

The lingering radiation from nukes are mostly remains of the weapon, not an effect of the initial burst of radiation.
Depends on what they ionise ofc - but as I said the tac nuke will have worse long term affects (particularly if aforementioned tac nuke is surface detonated rather than airburst).
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Old June 14th, 2019, 01:13 PM
whartung whartung is offline
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In the end, regardless of RAW, there's a tacit assumption that FGMP Works, that it's used "routinely" by guys in Battle Dress, so while there are certainly considerations, in the end the weapon can be used "safely".

Now, the points about radiation vs lingering radiation are valid as well.

If the FGMP is considered little more that really powerful flash bulbs, yea, they're bright, but not lasting. Perhaps you don't want two guys with FGMPs standing next to each other and firing simultaneously (since the combined simultaneous exposure may overcome the armor protection), but since the FGMP is more a support weapon than anything else, this can fall under a similar criteria of not using it in small rooms either. i.e. "Don't do that."

And that goes back the fact that, in the end, the FGMP has to be usable on the battlefield as a practical weapon. Running around and irradiating the zone to the point of uninhabitability notably by troops NOT in BD, does make it very useful. May as well lay down tactical nukes. "Only way to be sure."

So, anyway, regardless of RAW, you have to put the weapon in to context.
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  #29  
Old June 14th, 2019, 04:23 PM
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I'm with AnotherDilbert - I think the whole irradiation by FGMP was a Bad Idea (TM).

But Mongoose right...rule of kewl.
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  #30  
Old June 16th, 2019, 05:50 PM
CaptRet CaptRet is offline
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As destructive as the PGMP was, from a gaming standpoint was there really a need for the FGMP ? !?! Higher tech level advantages could be simply making it lighter, more manageable.
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