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Old September 16th, 2012, 02:37 AM
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Default Why the Foreven sector?

I'm just curious why non-canonical would-be authors are restricted to the Foreven sector? What's the justification?
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Old September 16th, 2012, 03:36 AM
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It's so that whatever they write doesn't affect the real OTU...

It's a model that's been used before - GDW designated areas of the OTU that other companies/writers could produce material for.
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Old September 16th, 2012, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Blue Ghost View Post
I'm just curious why non-canonical would-be authors are restricted to the Foreven sector? What's the justification?
it prevents some of the angst that de-canonization, as with the the DGP Sectors, causes the fan base. And the hassles of land grant.
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Old September 16th, 2012, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
It's a model that's been used before - GDW designated areas of the OTU that other companies/writers could produce material for.

Not quite.

The CT-Era Land Grants were a way for GDW to subcontract the work needed to flesh out the early OTU. The Grantees would develop the sectors assigned to them while GDW only had to worry about the Marches and the Rim. While everything being written was official, the assigned boundaries meant nothing being written would overwrite the work being done elsewhere.

Just as importantly, the rest of the OTU was still essentially up for grabs. You could write outside of your grant with the only risk being that GDW wouldn't prevent someone else later overwriting your work.

In Mongoose's Foreven system, everyone wanting to write for the OTU and not write for Mongoose has to write in Foreven. There's a first come first serve model of sorts too, which means Foreven gets smaller with every release. More importantly, the rest of the OTU is strictly off limits.

Putting it another way, GDW had multiple reserves while Mongoose has a single ghetto.

It's telling that the more productive of the current third party licensees have chose to avoid the Foreven altogether and create their own non-OTU settings instead.
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Old September 16th, 2012, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
... There's a first come first serve model of sorts too, which means Foreven gets smaller with every release.
I understood it was more a multiple parallel Foreven's meme.

That one author creating a specific Arglebargle IV does not invalidate another author's Arglebargle IV no matter how different the details. Nor prevent a later author from ignoring both the previous and totally reinventing Arglebargle IV again.
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Old September 16th, 2012, 07:47 AM
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Well, I'm put out by it. I think Steve Cole created the Sargasso sector so "fans" could create anything they wanted for Star Fleet Battles, just so they could get into an official book and be part of SFB lore in an E-module sort of way. I'm guessing that's what's being done with Traveller here.

I guess my beef with it is that I think it hamstrings and limits potential would be authors like myself. I don't completely disagree with the logic behind the Foreven thing, because I see some of the reasoning, but I think a smarter thing to have done would have been to just require author's to stamp a disclaimer on their work.

I'm kind of burnt out on Traveller and games anyway, so keep in mind that my enthusiasm is tempered by that as well.

Thinking back on CT and MT, heck even with the D20 and SJG stuff that's been on the market, I don't see a real big "clash" of multiverses here; i.e. no "Crisis on Infinite OTUs" kind of thing happening. In fact I was always highly amazed that not only that more adventures were not published for the original CT setting given the vastness of the Imperium and her neighbors, but that maybe four at most of the CT adventures took place outside the Spinward Marches. That always struck me as odd.

I'm hopeful that when T5 rolls around that A) I'll have left Home Depot's sanitorium for a career as an AD or camera ops, B) that T5 will be up and running and will have the original GDW styled license for people wanting to write addons, and that C) this will foster a healthy rejuvination of a venerable game that deserves a little better than what she's got now.

Like I've said in many exchanges, I really don't want to write for games. I grew up with them so I know how to write for them, but it's not where my heart, dreams and ambitions lay. When I spoke with Hunter about writing for Traveller it was pre-Mongoose/Foreven, but, unfortunately my personal life went on a wild roller coaster ride (which ends this Oct 12th). That was back in 2005, and I had some concept that I thought would be fun for fans, but I also wanted to make a tiny bit of money on them ($50? $100?...is that asking too much?). But, what I had talked about with Hunter and a few others seems like it has to wait for T5 to get out the door.

Many apologies to Wayne and other folks who helped me with my own little venture. Foreven sounds interesting, but it's just not the flavor I want. I'm more into this for sharing my imagination, not so much to get my name out there as a "game author", because otherwise I would take up the banner and cause of Foreven and just start writing like crazy.

Thanks for the replies. T5 awaits.

Thanks again.
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Old September 16th, 2012, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
Putting it another way, GDW had multiple reserves while Mongoose has a single ghetto.
The Foreven Reserve was started by GDW late in the MegaTraveller period.

The Mongoose Foreven arrangement offers no exclusivity whatsoever. I know of one project that seems to be assuming it will set the standard, but it has also been incredibly slow moving, has suffered from Drama, and is likely doomed. As said, outfits with the resources are heading into ATU space.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyComet View Post
The Foreven Reserve was started by GDW late in the MegaTraveller period.

The Mongoose Foreven arrangement offers no exclusivity whatsoever. I know of one project that seems to be assuming it will set the standard, but it has also been incredibly slow moving, has suffered from Drama, and is likely doomed. As said, outfits with the resources are heading into ATU space.
I vaguely recall a Foreven proposal way back when, but then again my memory is probably clouded by your suggestion here. I can't remember too well, if at all, anything regarding addons for MT.

What I do recall is that there used to be all kinds of addons of varying quality for CT, and that that business model seemed to be thriving in 2005 and 2006. My personal issues REALLY got in the way of me concentrating to write up an adventure, and crank out something I believed in and would have liked to have shared with fellow Traveller hobbyists. So it was that all kinds of legal and interpersonal wrangles kept me from completing my projects.

And now, when I do manage to complete a couple of them there's this Foreven thing. Well, okay, let's see what it's all about. And there I have my head scratching moment.

It strikes me as odd that the vastness of the map that is "known Traveller space" was never utilized to its fullest by anyone. From the far lower left corner of Aslan space, to the upper right north of K'Kree and east of Vargr territotires, there's a whole "untouched Imperium" of space that was mined maybe a half dozen times by GDW. Heck, Earth itself got one write up in a single JTAS.

As a young man who should have been studying his physics and biology more, and watching less TV, I often wondered why there were no more adventures being published for CT. Okay, the books weren't flying off the shelves, but the system was strong, and had a strong following, so much that if you were a gamer and into science fiction, you probably had some Traveller stuff in your closet.

I remember TSR and classic D&D (CD&D?), and how not one of those high production adventure packets, none of which had anything to do with the other, never were pigeon hold into a "Foreven Kingdom". True, the difference is that the 3I and her neighbors are a contiguous setup meant to be mined for a certain setting, regardless (irregardless?) of the fact that CT itself was meant to be a generic construct where you established your own setting.

I guess I'm just baffled why there isn't something more open for people who would have otherwise written for the system. The truth is, as I stated in my previous post, I'm just burnt out on trying to get projects done when I should be sorting out my own paper work at home. It would have been nice to have just written some non-canonical "it takes place in Hiver space, or over here" kind of thing without the Foreven thing.

My hunch, and it's only a hunch, is that someone expects big things from our little niche hobby. Well, that remains to be seen, and, if my speculation is correct, then it becomes clearer why Foreven was done, but I think someone may be over estimating a quantity of success from "the franchise", so to speak. I'm not a real militant against the "Foreven concept". Heck, it's not my game, but I think I'm a good writer, and would have liked more elbow room and been able to contribute. I grew up with Traveller, and now I've got to put some small ambitions to write for it aside, or put all the work I invested in up for free.

Meh. I've got better things to do.

I may post more in my blog. In the mean time I'm done contributing to this thing.

Best of luck.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 09:46 AM
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I believe the Foreven reserve status grew out of the perception that people wanted a sector of space in the OTU that wouldn't be pulled out from under them by subsequent products. (More cynically, it might well have been a way for GDW to tell all the folks who wanted to get their sectors officially published, "Go play over there"). Looking back I think Foreven's status was an answer in search of a problem as I've seldom, if ever actually, run into anyone who was that honestly concerned with their version of the setting being overwritten.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 09:50 AM
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The thing about the Foreven license is that folks can use OTU concepts but Mongoose does not need to pay someone to oversee canon complicity issues. I know the sort of flak they'd get if some third party 'official' products didn't match the canon in some way. In fact, that happens even when you do. Mongoose are wise to keep thier fingers out of that particular can of worms.

(I got a particularly savage attack for a writeup of Aramis in the Marches one time. Basically it was 'you're the worst writer ever, you screwed up so much, Aramis is detailed in The Traveller Adventure, don't you know anything???'

My response was: 'I knew that. And the writeup for Aramis/Aramis that I did was based on that. But there are two worlds called Aramis in the Marches, and the other one is mentioned in a Mercenary ticket, so we based the writeup on that, which is the only piece of canon extant for that world'.

Might as well not have said anything; the torrent of abuse continued. And that was for getting it RIGHT, ie both worlds called Aramis were written up based on canon sources, and both were the right way around. Canon-dude failed to realise that and attacked us out of ignorance. Enlightenment did not change his viewpoint.)

So you see, Mongoose are best not laying themselves open to that sort of thing except in official products that are overseen properly - and that costs money, ie adds to the product overhead. Justifiable on your own products, but not really on third-party stuff.

if you really want to write in the OTU, you could approach Mongoose about getting hired for an official product.
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