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  #21  
Old December 8th, 2004, 02:47 PM
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Just as long as it has some crunchie new parts to it (the alien char gen stuff sounds good) I'll be getting it. Hopefully sooner than later.
  #22  
Old December 8th, 2004, 04:25 PM
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Perhaps I'm being a little unfair on T4.... I must admit to having been upset about the layout, missing tables, etc, but I can see where MWM was coming from with it.

My feeling is, and always has been, that the rules/games mechanics should be separate from the mileu. That way you'd only need one system, and publishers would have freedom to develop era/mileu or alternative TUs.

I shall buy T5 cos I love Traveller and want to see it move forward.
  #23  
Old December 8th, 2004, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gruffty:
My feeling is, and always has been, that the rules/games mechanics should be separate from the mileu. That way you'd only need one system, and publishers would have freedom to develop era/mileu or alternative TUs.
Isn't that what GURPS Space and Star HERO and other such generic systems do though?

Quote:
I shall buy T5 cos I love Traveller and want to see it move forward.
There's the thing - what's "move forward" mean here? What would T5 add to Traveller that hasn't been done six times already - or can't be added to a version that's already being actively developed?
  #24  
Old December 8th, 2004, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Malenfant:
There's the thing - what's "move forward" mean here? What would T5 add to Traveller that hasn't been done six times already - or can't be added to a version that's already being actively developed?
Come on, Mal. Haven't you ever had a dream of creating a game system or mechanic that's perfect, and then tinkering with it over time as you fine-tune it? I'd daresay you have, if your Stellar Generation method and 3D maps of local space are any indication of such.

In my opinion, Marc W. Miller does the same thing. The only major difference is that he has published his interim work over time, whereas you and I and other Referees/Game Masters/Storytellers did not have that chance.

I don't think that T5 is intended to be anything more than the publication of Marc's latest version, his latest release, of his pursuit of the perfect game he envisioned so long ago. If it were supposed to be anything else, I don't think he'd have allowed either GT or T20 to have been done, nor would CT Revised be a consideration for QLI. Let's face it; the original T5 documents are over five years old. He could have gone that route rather than pursue any of these licenses.

Now, I don't know Marc personally, only by reputation, so I could have everything all wrong. This is just my guess, for what it's worth. But that's why I don't really measure T5 in terms of what it can add to Traveller. I just like to think of it in terms of the pleasure it brings to its creator.

At least, that's why I would be releasing it if I were Marc Miller.

Pondering the improbably,
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  #25  
Old December 8th, 2004, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Malenfant:
Isn't that what GURPS Space and Star HERO and other such generic systems do though?
Yes, but they lack the Traveller feel to them.
For many people Traveller is a 2d6 game mechanic, career path determined character generation, etc. system.
T20 does quite a good job of replicating the feel of CT/MT, even T4 (and works even better if you use 2d10 instead of d20 to resolve tasks ).
The GURPS rule system just doesn't feel right to be used to run a game of Traveller, IMHO - great supplements though.

Quote:
There's the thing - what's "move forward" mean here? What would T5 add to Traveller that hasn't been done six times already - or can't be added to a version that's already being actively developed?
Now this is a good point.
What I like about QLI's 1248 supplement is that it will not be rules specific and thus can advance the Traveller timeline whatever your favourite rules incarnation.
The idea of developing other settings is also a good one.
One thing that could definitely be done is to produce an updated FF&S type book with the full Traveller tech tree, plus variants and sci-fi developments that don't have a place in the OTU, but should be available for referees to include in their settings if they so wish.
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  #26  
Old December 8th, 2004, 06:06 PM
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Hey, Sigg, you might want to make a pitch... you just might get approval for such a thing. I imagine it'd have to be bigger than a TA, but otherwise, I think there's enough of a backing among Traveller fans to support an "ATU Construction Kit" book.

-Flynn
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  #27  
Old December 8th, 2004, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Malenfant:
Isn't that what GURPS Space and Star HERO and other such generic systems do though?
Yes, but they lack the Traveller feel to them.
For many people Traveller is a 2d6 game mechanic, career path determined character generation, etc. system.
T20 does quite a good job of replicating the feel of CT/MT, even T4 (and works even better if you use 2d10 instead of d20 to resolve tasks ).
The GURPS rule system just doesn't feel right to be used to run a game of Traveller, IMHO - great supplements though.
</font>[/QUOTE]I think that's the key point here. Whenever I play Traveller these days, it's always with CT, because it just feels right (It could also because I'm pushing 40 and am rejecting change [img]smile.gif[/img] ). I have T20 but have never felt comfortable with it. The same feeling I got with Call of Cthulhu D20, which is why I still run the BRP version.

Having had a good look at the T5 playtest files, I liked what I saw. I'd definitely be up for a copy.

- Neil.
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  #28  
Old December 9th, 2004, 01:06 AM
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Sigg, if T20 couldn't replicate my "Swinging from the chandeliers" swashbuckling space opera as well as CT, I'd have demanded my name be pulled.

It's almost as good at it as my houseruled MT. (The big changes: Att/3 not att/5, +1 all diff's and mishap thresholds, and special success is +4 not +2.) I just happen to know MT better.

I have liked what I've seen, but for it to succeed, MWM will either need to
1) pull the reprints/eprints
2) make it the hype from hell (doing something on par with what Hasbro/WOTC/TSR did with 3E)
3) make it incredibly good.

I hope for option 3. I doubt I'll be fully satisfied.

(For me, the most important thing is pen and damage being separate issues. MT spoiled me that way.)
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  #29  
Old December 9th, 2004, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
For many people Traveller is a 2d6 game mechanic, career path determined character generation, etc. system.
T20 does quite a good job of replicating the feel of CT/MT, even T4 (and works even better if you use 2d10 instead of d20 to resolve tasks ).
This is why I've initially created characters in CT/MT/etc. first then ported them over to T20* or BESM. Best of both worlds for me. There's a 3d6 variant for d20 in the excellent Unearthed Arcana tho' 2d10 works as well.
Quote:

One thing that could definitely be done is to produce an updated FF&S type book with the full Traveller tech tree, plus variants and sci-fi developments that don't have a place in the OTU, but should be available for referees to include in their settings if they so wish.
Best of what was evidently planned for FF&S1 along with what T4 could've been sorta thing (multiple "views" of complexity etc.) would be very cool.

IMO something like this seems to work best when it's part of the initial design for a game or for a revision of a game. Either way it's kind've a dream product, great idea but I suspect it'd take a lot of work and dedication to do.

* these days I’ve also tinkered with folding in Mutants & Masterminds/Anime d20 SRD point buy in some attempt to break character concepts from class/level/BAB restrictions

Caffeinated Casey
  #30  
Old December 9th, 2004, 11:44 AM
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From what I expect, T5 will be compatible with just about any CT/MT/T4 task system variant. I think the T4/T5 task systems put too much emphasis on characteristics, but that won't stop me from buying T5.

I think I'm going to like T5 chargen better than CT/MT. So, that'll make it a worthwhile purchase right there.

With my current thinking, T5 would also be worth it to me if it updated & expanded the Book 1-3 systems without increasing the level of detail/deceasing the level of abstraction greatly. (e.g. I'd like a Book 2-ish small craft design system.)

I might end up with a CT/T5 hybrid instead of switching completely to T5, but I expect it'll be worthwhile enough to me to earn some of my gaming $$.
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