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T4 - Marc Miller's Traveller Discussion of T4 - Marc Miller's Traveller from Imperium Games and the Milieu 0 setting.

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  #21  
Old May 14th, 2017, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by LiNeNoiSe View Post
Are there figures for fuel, ammunition, and spare parts? Might be something in Striker.
From Striker, Book 2, Page 37, Rule 68d Supply Troops:

The unit's basic load of food is equal to 14 kilograms per man (two weeks rations). The unit's basic load of ammunition is enough ammunition to supply each weapon in the unit with 80 fire phases. The unit's basic load of fuel is enough fuel to supply the power plants of every vehicle in the unit at full output for 24 hours. After determining the weight of the unit's basic supply load, add 10% to the required vehicle tonnage for ferrying supplies and restocking supply points.

More on topic are Rules 72 & 73c:

Personnel cost Cr10,000 per year for militia, Cr20.000 per year for conscripts, Cr30,000 per year for long service professionals, and Cr50,000 per year for picked troops. This cost includes upkeep on all supporting facilities, salaries, civilian support personnel, pensions, training costs, etc.

Somebody in the GNP thread said that the Striker rules were invalidated. I find that hard to believe. There were similar rules in a couple of TNE books and one or two of the GT books. They also included similar tables to the one Aramis posted.

I'm gonna have to go dig through them now.
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  #22  
Old May 15th, 2017, 12:03 AM
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TNE Path of Tears, pp. 95-97 has force composition rules similar to Striker, Book 2 and Trillion Credit Squadron.

World Tamer's Handbook, pp. 33-35 has rules somewhat similar to Striker and Pocket Empires.

More force composition rules in Striker II on pp. 50-53. More support rules on pp. 54 & 55.

GT Ground Forces, pp. 68-70 discusses supply of fuel, water, ammunition, spares, sundries, life support, and shipping.

Pages 77-82 discuss "How to Build an Army." Aramis's table, modified for GURPS, is on page 77.

I'd forgotten how much stuff is in WTHB. The Colonial Economic Model is reminiscent of both PE and The Great Game.
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Last edited by LiNeNoiSe; May 15th, 2017 at 02:27 AM.. Reason: Additions.
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Old May 15th, 2017, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiNeNoiSe View Post
From Striker, Book 2, Page 37, Rule 68d Supply Troops:

The unit's basic load of food is equal to 14 kilograms per man (two weeks rations). The unit's basic load of ammunition is enough ammunition to supply each weapon in the unit with 80 fire phases. The unit's basic load of fuel is enough fuel to supply the power plants of every vehicle in the unit at full output for 24 hours. After determining the weight of the unit's basic supply load, add 10% to the required vehicle tonnage for ferrying supplies and restocking supply points.

More on topic are Rules 72 & 73c:

Personnel cost Cr10,000 per year for militia, Cr20.000 per year for conscripts, Cr30,000 per year for long service professionals, and Cr50,000 per year for picked troops. This cost includes upkeep on all supporting facilities, salaries, civilian support personnel, pensions, training costs, etc.

Somebody in the GNP thread said that the Striker rules were invalidated. I find that hard to believe. There were similar rules in a couple of TNE books and one or two of the GT books. They also included similar tables to the one Aramis posted.

I'm gonna have to go dig through them now.
I believe the discredit has to do with applying the tables to the OTU, not for the purposes originally envisioned within the game, to run a cost-effective profitable merc operation.

It's the ground pounder equivalent of building ships and fleets and seeing if you know what you re doing by the trial of combat.
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Old May 15th, 2017, 12:33 PM
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Now that is inbreeding statistics on the supply side of things. Presumably the unit would need resupply with that load every two weeks

I don't have striker. Does it contain much useful material?
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Old May 15th, 2017, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiNeNoiSe View Post
Are there figures for fuel, ammunition, and spare parts? Might be something in Striker.
See that ammunition may be taken out of equation if you use energy weapons (e.g. lasers) and you have power sources...

Of course, lasers have other problems...
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Old May 15th, 2017, 03:27 PM
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Now that is inbreeding statistics on the supply side of things. Presumably the unit would need resupply with that load every two weeks

I don't have striker. Does it contain much useful material?
The load I mentioned is per week.

Striker is basically a heavy equipment arty/gun/tank plane design system and a campaign system for building player sized merc units and putting them into mercenary ticket/adventures, geared towards tabletop miniatures warfare.

So for that, yes. For a 50,000 man force, it certainly will let you build your TO&E in detail and financing of same, but it's not abstracted units at all for combat.

I should mention I am talking about CT Striker, not Striker II. I've glanced through the latter but I am not sure how compatible they are. I do have the T4 CSC which has a full set of vehicle power and sensor design, and they are spiritually the same but the numbers don't match, judging from the armor values alone if nothing else.
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Old May 15th, 2017, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by kilemall View Post
I should mention I am talking about CT Striker, not Striker II. I've glanced through the latter but I am not sure how compatible they are. I do have the T4 CSC which has a full set of vehicle power and sensor design, and they are spiritually the same but the numbers don't match, judging from the armor values alone if nothing else.
They aren't. Striker II is the Traveller edition of Frank/GDW's Command Decision.
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Old May 15th, 2017, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiNeNoiSe View Post
Are there figures for fuel, ammunition, and spare parts? Might be something in Striker.
I have a fair amount of that sort of data in my various supply manuals if you are interested. Currently, an armored division of the US requires 1000 tons of supplies per day, most of which is fuel. A back up rule of thumb is about 65 pounds of supplies of all sorts per man per day. That includes fuel, ammunition, food, spare parts, construction materials, PX supplies, and medical supplies. That is WW2 and Korean War data, it is a might worse now when it comes to fuel and ammunition. I would put it at about 100 pounds per man per day.
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Old May 16th, 2017, 02:07 AM
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The following data comes from FM 101-10, Staff Officers' Field Manua-Organization, Technical,and Logistical Data, the February 1959 edition. It is the unclassified data, and is based on WW2 and Korean War experience.

For every man shipped overseas, the initial equipment tonnage per man was 1.33 Long Tons of 2240 pounds per ton, slightly more than a metric ton. The volume occupied by this averaged 160 cubic feet, or about one-third of a Traveller Displacement ton. Thirty days maintenance was broken down between dry cargo and bulk POL, with 0.60 Long tons of dry cargo per man, and 0.26 long tons of bulk POL. The dry cargo is about the same today, but the Bulk POL would run about 1 long ton per man per month, as a minimum. This is based on the assumption of a divisional slice of 40,000 men, with 15,000 in the division and 25,000 overseas support troops, and 2 air force wing slices of 5,000 men overseas or 10,000 additional troops. Those wings would be comprised of 75 fighter-bombers each. Remember, this is just the supporting cargo, this does not include the tonnage and space requirements for the men going overseas.

This does assume that the troops are going to a European type of theater, without extremes of climate. Supply needs for troops going into a hot, tropical environment increase some, while supply needs for troops going into an Arctic or cold-weather environment increase by about a third.

As you are looking at Pocket Empires at Year Zero, you are not looking at very high Tech Levels, while the above breakdown would work for Tech Levels up to 9 or so. I have not seen anyone design troop transports for Traveller beyond the 800-ton Broadsword-class of Mercenary Cruiser. Looking at the specs in The Traveller Book, it probably could, in theory, manage about 60 men, their initial equipment and 30 days of maintenance. I say in theory because a lot of the equipment would require much larger amounts of space than the 4 measurement tons or 160 feet per man. One M-48 tank would require 68.4 measurement tons of volume, as an absolute minimum, for shipment, which at roughly 12 measurement tons per Traveller Displacement Ton, would be 5.67 Traveller tons of volume for shipment. There were 54 Tanks in a Battalion, with 17 per company, and 3 battalion HQ tanks. The crew was 4 men.
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  #30  
Old May 16th, 2017, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timerover51 View Post
I have a fair amount of that sort of data in my various supply manuals if you are interested.
Thanks. I've got a bunch of them I could dig through. I used to collect FM's. The MAGTF Staff Training Program used to provide a little more modern data for MEB's. Dunnigan's "How to Make War" is a little less boring.
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