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T4 - Marc Miller's Traveller Discussion of T4 - Marc Miller's Traveller from Imperium Games and the Milieu 0 setting.

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  #21  
Old March 28th, 2013, 08:19 AM
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Morning aramis,

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Originally Posted by aramis View Post
Once the update is done, we can host the official stuff (eg, SSDS) here. I'll just have to manually upload them.
Thank you too for the update on the status, now if I can only figure out where all the good stuff is I'm golden ;-)
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  #22  
Old January 12th, 2014, 09:54 AM
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Did the corrected First Survey data ever get posted anywhere?
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  #23  
Old January 13th, 2014, 01:18 AM
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Yes, although it will at some point be superceded by T5SS when we get around to Milleu Zero. That being written, I thought Marc put his corrected pdf of that material on the T4 CD?
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  #24  
Old February 23rd, 2014, 07:45 AM
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Not sure of that being an errata, but I find it incoherent:

While tactics skill is defined as training and experience in small unit tactics (up to units of 1000 trops or spaceships) (bold is mine), so I understand it merges what in CT/MT is tactics and ship tactics.

Even so, there's no way a Navy officer can adquire de skill outside the Naval Accademy, as it is not in the Navy skill tables.

Also, when it says spaceships (as bolded), does it incude starships (my guess is yes, but it should be specified)?
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Old February 27th, 2014, 02:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreaV View Post
"During the resulting Luriani War (93-96). the Protectorate forces proved they had lost none of their flair for three dimensional warfare. They inflicted several sharp defeats on Imperial forces and eventually led to a cease-fire on terms very favorable to the Luriani. Despite the face-saving settlement, the Luriani War left a legacy of mistrust. Tensions between the Protectorate and Imperium remained high for many decades after the war." (GT:H p104-105)

Because the text in GT humaniti makes it clear this isn't what happened As Don says its minor (insignificantly so) in either GT or T20, it only causes problems in M0. It just happens that were I set my games
This one rather suggests to me historians argueing about what happened centuries after the event, in the 1100`s Imperial most likely.
Why not keep BOTH versions as canon, let individual referee`s who want to set campaigns during this period decide for themselves what happened and leave fixing things until T5 is ready to revisit Mileu 0.
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Old February 27th, 2014, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Rabbit 3 View Post
This one rather suggests to me historians argueing about what happened centuries after the event, in the 1100`s Imperial most likely.

Why not keep BOTH versions as canon, let individual referee`s who want to set campaigns during this period decide for themselves what happened and leave fixing things until T5 is ready to revisit Mileu 0.
Because setting information in authorial voice (aka information for referees) is supposed to be the truth. Explaining away discrepancies as viewpoint writing misses that point rather badly.

(Unless it actually IS viewpoint writing from the start, of course).

Also, there's usually1 nothing to be gained from leaving background facts vague. Individual referees are free to ignore the most firmly established canon fact if they want to. Ambiguities don't increase that freedom one whit. It does, OTOH, ensure that half the referees who are forced to choose between possible alternatives will turn out to be wrong when and if an official source ever gets around to fixing the fact for the OTU.
1 I admit to the occasional exception.
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Old February 28th, 2014, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rancke View Post
Because setting information in authorial voice (aka information for referees) is supposed to be the truth. Explaining away discrepancies as viewpoint writing misses that point rather badly.

(Unless it actually IS viewpoint writing from the start, of course).
With three different versions of history, it might be necessary for a referee to choose one (with the admission of the conflicting information)

It seems, to me, that the natural flow of storytelling is the most important skill a referee could have with these books. I think that multiple histories might benefit different styles of play. Perhaps there are always two versions of reporting any event in history. Couldn't the referee consult all sources and then propose one for use as the "official voice" of history in the game?

I'm not suggesting labeling one version as subjective and the other as objective. Couldn't these problems be determined by the setting of the adventure/one-shot? I do see the problem with the need for factual events.

I think doing this would help flesh out these histories more and might even soften the differences between the milieux. Anyways, that's how I would approach it.

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Old February 28th, 2014, 10:53 PM
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Evening all,

Look at the historical events that have occurred in the real world different sides have a different version of the same events. Which Traveller history is the correct one depends on one's point of view or the only the individual likes best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich4421972 View Post
With three different versions of history, it might be necessary for a referee to choose one (with the admission of the conflicting information)

It seems, to me, that the natural flow of storytelling is the most important skill a referee could have with these books. I think that multiple histories might benefit different styles of play. Perhaps there are always two versions of reporting any event in history. Couldn't the referee consult all sources and then propose one for use as the "official voice" of history in the game?

I'm not suggesting labeling one version as subjective and the other as objective. Couldn't these problems be determined by the setting of the adventure/one-shot? I do see the problem with the need for factual events.

I think doing this would help flesh out these histories more and might even soften the differences between the milieux. Anyways, that's how I would approach it.
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Old March 1st, 2014, 09:52 PM
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I really like the way that the T5 errata includes "clarifications" and "omissions" for various conflicts in rules given. It would be really neat if the T4 errata document contained similar "omissions" and "clarification" statements that could be used to make a quick ruling on the canonicity of a particular event or issue.

Some of these issues would be difficult to find if the referee was only familiar ( or had access to) one of the three historical sources (Traveller4, Gateway or GT).

I know that I would be very nervous as a referee at a convention if I picked one set of history to use and was called out on it by a well-informed convention goer. That is one thing that I fear most as a convention referee.

So, for the sake of convention referees, it would be nice to have these clarifications in a single document (even if they did overlap in places). I would want my players to have the most fun possible. All this while I get free admission (and a discount on my hotel room) and a constant supply of pizza
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Old March 1st, 2014, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich4421972 View Post
I know that I would be very nervous as a referee at a convention if I picked one set of history to use and was called out on it by a well-informed convention goer. That is one thing that I fear most as a convention referee.
A simple solution to that is to include a disclaimer in the tournament announcement to the effect that some details may be different. Repeat the disclaimer just before you start the game.

Better yet, if it's just one specific discrepancy that bothers you, specifiy which version is true in your con scenario.

(And finally, always include the words "knowledge of the Traveller universe is not necessary to enjoy this scenario" in the appetizer. )


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