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TWILIGHT: 2000 1E/2E Discussion of the Twilight: 2000 from GDW.

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Old June 15th, 2003, 04:27 PM
RASH RASH is offline
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Actually I do not own a copy of Traveller, I have just heard that the rules are somewhat compatible to Twiligth2000 and Dark Conspiracy. Can somebody please tell me if this is true and if so to what degree?

I would very much appreciate that.
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Old June 15th, 2003, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RASH:
Actually I do not own a copy of Traveller, I have just heard that the rules are somewhat compatible to Twiligth2000 and Dark Conspiracy. Can somebody please tell me if this is true and if so to what degree?

I would very much appreciate that.
Traveller:The New Era is the version that uses the rules that t2k used.
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Old June 15th, 2003, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by WarriorKnight:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RASH:
Actually I do not own a copy of Traveller, I have just heard that the rules are somewhat compatible to Twiligth2000 and Dark Conspiracy. Can somebody please tell me if this is true and if so to what degree?

I would very much appreciate that.
Traveller:The New Era is the version that uses the rules that t2k used. </font>[/QUOTE]Well, it's never quite that simple...

Traveller in it's original form used 2d6 + Die Modifiers with a target number of 8 or more. Then came DGP. Along with Marc, they worked out a system that allowed for differing difficulties that changed the target number appropriatly. See the Q&A thread in the MT board for more detail.

Twilight and 2300 took similar yet different approaches to the same problem. Both used a single d10 but had differing numbers of difficulty levels and different ways of describing how skills and attributes were used. The Twilight is version is somewhat less flexable (as Marc noted in the above); OTOH, it plays faster I have found. YMWillV.

DC and TNE, essentially, was when they tried to bring all the GDW RPG's into a single unified system. It used a single d20 but was otherwise, for all practical purposes, the same as 2300ad task system. There are (many... ;') arguments for and against this unification.

Hope this helps,

William
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Old June 16th, 2003, 03:35 PM
RASH RASH is offline
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Thanks a lot for all that information. So the current Traveller uses diferent mechanics than DC and T2K?

So I'll look for a copy of The New Era!

And thanks again for all your help. If some of you are playing DC or other Horror games you should check out demongroung.org!

Bye!
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Old June 16th, 2003, 11:06 PM
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Traveller has had at least 4 different versions. Twilight 2000 at least three versions.

However at one time they both had versions of the GDW "House System", which was the only system used for Dark Conspiracy. IMHO, that was the worst system either Traveller or Twilight 2000 had, but if that's what you want look for Traveller: The New Era.
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Old June 17th, 2003, 12:27 AM
Sgt Biggles Sgt Biggles is offline
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I always liked MegaTraveller but never tried the gurps version. Classic Traveller was great but pretty technical.

In Twilight I liked ver 2. 2.2 weakened several areas. But to throw in my 2 cents worth, GDW was moving in the right direction. Gurps really set the standard for a role playing system with versatility. GDW tightened the process up. It was a sad day when they shut their doors. {sigh}

The original T2K was a lot of dice rolling, which was a turn off to the hard core role-players. Anyway, just some thoughts.

Rash: I think you will enjoy any version of Traveller you choose to try out. T20 (The D20 version and newest release) Is an excellent place to start. William and Uncle Bob both gave good thoughts.

Good Luck and enjoy!
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Old June 23rd, 2003, 04:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by William:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by WarriorKnight:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RASH:
Actually I do not own a copy of Traveller, I have just heard that the rules are somewhat compatible to Twiligth2000 and Dark Conspiracy. Can somebody please tell me if this is true and if so to what degree?

I would very much appreciate that.
Traveller:The New Era is the version that uses the rules that t2k used. </font>[/QUOTE]Well, it's never quite that simple...

[snip]
Twilight and 2300 took similar yet different approaches to the same problem. Both used a single d10 but had differing numbers of difficulty levels and different ways of describing how skills and attributes were used. The Twilight is version is somewhat less flexable (as Marc noted in the above); OTOH, it plays faster I have found. YMWillV.

DC and TNE, essentially, was when they tried to bring all the GDW RPG's into a single unified system. It used a single d20 but was otherwise, for all practical purposes, the same as 2300ad task system. There are (many... ;') arguments for and against this unification.

Hope this helps,

William
</font>[/QUOTE]Twilight 2000 - non-GDW house engine
T2K 1.0: Percentiles; 3 difficulties (multiply %ile). Don't remember attribute scale for certain, but IIRC, 3d6 base.

House engine
Key Concepts: Skills gained in fixed choices for 1st term, limited selection for later terms. Roll low. Multiply TN to account for difficulties. hit points by location. "lesser" NPC's use different damage taking rules.Skills cost more once they exceed controlling attribute.

T2K 2.0, DC: d10, for skill or less. 3 difficulties (X2, x1, x1/2). atts 1-10 scale (2d6-2 min 1).

T2K 2.1: d20 for TN (Att+Skill) or less. Difficulties again by multiplication of TN. Don't have Rules Upgrade handy to check # of levels. atts 1-10 scale (2d6-2 min 1).

Cadilacs and Dinosaurs: don't have a copy, but it is on the GDW house engine.

Traveller: The New Era (See below in Traveller). Note that equipment corresponds to T2K 2.1. Note the "Increased cost after equal to attribute" is gone.

2300 engine
T2300/2300AD: d10 + (Att/5) + Skill for TN or more; TN based on 1 of 5 difficulties. Attributes 1-20 (4d6-4 min 1). Skills fixed + purchase for 1st term in career, purchase only for later terms, cost varies by career and skill and skill level.

Traveller
CT: 2d6 for 8+, DM's by task, skill, situation. Some difficulties set at other numbers. Atts on 1-15 scale, 2d6 base. Skill reciepts in CG by random rolls on career based tables.

DGP-CT, MT: 2d6 + (Att/5) + Skill for TN. TN by one of 5 difficulties. MT had some elaborations. Atts on 1-15 scale, 2d6 base. Skill reciepts in CG by random rolls on career based tables.

T:TNE: 1d20 for TN or less; multiply TN by difficulty factor with base of att+skill. Ats 2d6-1, 1-15 scale. The "Increased cost after equal to attribute" is gone. Skill reciepts for subsequent terms decrease with age, and are choice from list; Initial terms fixed skill reciepts based upon career. Mk1Md0 is initial release. Mk1Md1 has errata included, but no major changes.

T4: roll dice vs Stat + Skill; 6 difficulties, with dice throw by difficulty (dice in d6's , occasional use of d3 for one difficulty level). Atts on 1-15 scale, 2d6 base. Skill reciepts in CG by random rolls on career based tables.

GT: GURPS. Point based CG. Skills based off attribute plus purchased levels. 3d6 roll low, conversions for DMs from other Traveller's task definitions. Atts on a 1-20 scale, with human common range in the 7-16 range.

T20: 1d20 + skill total for TN or more. modifiers for use of Task definitions from other editions included in rules. Skill total includes skill levels, attribute modifier, and some non-skill modifiers. Attributes on 1-20+, 4d6k3 (Roll 4 dice, drop lowest die, total remaining 3), raises with experience, no maximum. Skills by class, choice from list.

Other, pre-house engine
Space 1889: Used several different task resolution mechanics. Attributes 1-6 (1d6).
Method 1: 1d6 for skill level or less.
Method 2: 1d6 per level of skill for TN or higher. 5+ defined levels of difficulty. (Much like Star Wars.)
Method 3: 1d6 per skill level for TN or more per die, count successes. Used for combat, TN is by weapon type. (Similar to shadowrun).
Most house engine concepts (Skills cost more above attribute level, attribute linkages firm, skills from career, multiple levels of skill per term defined by career rather than rolled) are in place.


Rough Timeline - May have several errors
CT
T2K 1.0
DGP-CT (CT with DGP task system)
T2300 (2300 1.0)
MT
2300 AD (2300 1.1)
Space 1889
T2K 2.0
DC
C&D ?
T2k 2.1/DC 2.1
T:TNE Mk1Md0
T:TNE Mk1Md1
T4
T:20
coming soon 2320 (D20/T20 engine adaptation for 2300 setting)


commentary
The T2K 2.x & DC materials were "Not quite" TNE compatable, most especially because of different skill acquisition rates and mechanics, both in CG and play. HOWEVER, the weapons are compatible between these rulesets. Unless you're really a math-fiend, though, characters are not terribly far apart in skill basis.

T2K and DC: Mechaincally, T2K does detailed military character generation, and has radiation rules, and a few nifty bits for survival in the wilds. DC does psionics, spacecraft, and cybernetics. They combine almost seamlessly. There was a tied in miniatures wargame, too.

Space 1889 & the house engine: Clearly the closest link for space 1889 is the T2K 2.0. It is a very rough draft, but a really nifty setting. (OK, a trippy setting.) It also set the basis for the "tightly-tied in" boardgames of both T2K 2.x and T:TNE. These games were following the ideals of Mayday and Snapshot (which see below)

Traveller: The whole line is noted for extensive supplements, and "tie-in" games. Some were CT ruleset subsets adapted to a board (Mayday, Snapshot) that coule be used in game. Others were alternate mechanics with character calculation options (Striker, AHL), and others still were shared setting without mechanical tie-ins (5Fw, Imperium, Dark Nebula, Invasion Earth). Bits and peices of many of these found their way into MegaTraveller.

MT didn't spawn subsidiary games.

T:TNE spawned several boardgames Brilliant Lances (ship combat mechanics, ship design), Battle Rider (Fleet combats), Striker II (the revised and travellerized version of the T2K minis game). That it tied nicely (and tightly) to the RPG for 2 of the three (BL, S2) was a benefit. If you want realistic space combats, BL is one of the best games out there. And it can be used with TNE with very little adaptation.

T2K 2.x and 2300: are very different approaches to the same problem: roll high (2300) versus roll low (T2K 2.x), effects of attributes (limits skill {T2K 2.0} vs modifier often less than skill but has no effect on purchase {2300} vs added and usually higher than skill and still affects purchase{T2K2.1})

All the games use task systems with named levels and mechanical definitions except original CT. several different approaches were tried by GDW and later MWM/IG.
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