Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register

Go Back > Citizens of the Imperium > General Traveller Discussions > The Lone Star

The Lone Star Meet, greet and socialize with your fellow Travellers in the Lone Star Lounge. Random Topics.

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old July 24th, 2007, 12:20 AM
Scott Martin's Avatar
Scott Martin Scott Martin is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 753
Gallery : 0
Scott Martin Citizen
Default FF&S / FF&S Small Arms issues?


I've been playing around with the FF&S small arms design sequence, and after crunching the numbers for a shotgun shell got a mass per round over 2 kg. Now admittedly this was a *big* shotgun, but the weight seemed a bit extreme to me, so I did some hunting and tracked down the mass (shipping weight) of some various 12 Ga shotgun rounds, and compared them to the weight of the same 12 Ga shotgun round according to FF&S (and the formula is *exactly* the same in FF&S-2):

Solid shotgun rounds for a 12 Ga:
B&P Big Game Ammunition 12 Gauge 2-3/4" 1-1/8 oz Rifled Slug Box of 10
Box of 10 2-3/4" rounds have a shipping weight of 0.9 lb

Pellet (#8 birdshot) rounds for a 12 Ga
Bismuth ECO Ammunition 12 Gauge 2-3/4" 3/4 oz of #8 Shot Box of 10
Box of 10 2-3/4" rounds have a shipping weight of 0.8 lb

00 Buckshot rounds for a 12 Ga:
Fiocchi Ammunition 12 Gauge 2-3/4" 00 Buckshot 9 Nickel Plated Pellets Box of 10
Box of 10 2-3/4" rounds have a shipping weight of 0.9 lb

According to FF&S, the wieght of a single 12Ga shell should be:
70x3.14159*18.5*18.5*0.003 G = 225g per round. Note that this assumes that the round is 70 mm long, not ~76 mm long
Actual weight is ~40g per round

So this seems to be out by a factor of about 6, fairly significant if this is true across other firearms as well.

Anyone out there have comments on what kind of densities I should be expecting in "real world" ammunition, so that I don't have to go hunting this down for other ammunition types? I'm pretty sure that there are folks out there who can give me the weight and dimensions for .45 APC ammo (for example) so I'll promise to do the calculations for what FF&S says the ammo should weigh, and compare to Real World ammo weights and see if there's a consistent error, or even just a trend across ammunition types. Just so we have a reasonable basis for comparison, FF&S uses the following ammo types:


FF&S assumes pistol ammunition is straight, so if it's necked pistol ammo I'll compare both ways to see if "straight" is a good assumption

What I need are the length and diameter of the ammunition, and the weight per round (including the brass / case / whatever)

<EDIT> Of course if you have slug weight, propellant weight and muzzle velocity, I suspect that I'll be doing some work on reverse engineering these as well... </EDIT>


Scott Martin

Last edited by Scott Martin; July 24th, 2007 at 12:26 AM..
Reply With Quote

To see more of this thread, please login or register.


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MegaTraveller small arms design mctesla MegaTraveller 14 August 14th, 2006 05:50 PM
The Future of Small Arms Todg Ship's Locker 147 April 22nd, 2006 12:55 AM
Looking for an old comrade in arms sergeantq The Lone Star 0 March 30th, 2004 04:59 PM
Weapon Mounts on Arms Ben Harrison T20 - Traveller for the D20 System 1 March 15th, 2003 12:14 AM
Feats for Multiple Arms lord irial T20 - Traveller for the D20 System 10 November 25th, 2002 01:07 AM

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010- Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.