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In the OTU In the Official Traveller Universe. Any milieux that's been published in any edition. Not for discussion of rules except in reference to how they reflect the OTU

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Old March 11th, 2016, 12:49 PM
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Default Why didn't Vland expand coreward or spinward?

I was reviewing MT:V&V and in page 11 there's a map of what was the first Imperium.

It calls my attention that the expansion from Vland can be hardly seen as radial, as they expanded rimward and trailing quite farther than Coreward or spinward. While they stopped short of Terra (so about 4 Imperial sectors) in their Riward expansion, they just expanded a single sector Coreward. Similarly, while they expanded about 3 sectors trailing, they nearly didn't expand spinward.

Odd course, the Windhorn Rift precluded them to expand on the core-spinward direction, but they could well border it, and expand through Corridor (where they seem not having even probed) and Meshan (whose rimward half they colonized) to Gzaefueg Sectors...

Not having real barriers (as they did in the Great Rift), nor any opposition, it would be expected (at least IMHO) for them to expand in a more radial way to every posible direction.

After all, if they had reached coreward as far as they did spinward they'd reached even farther, and spinward they'd reached up to Foreven (and they would have engulfed even Lair, probably preventing Vargr from becoming a major race).

Is there any given explanation for this greater expansion rimward an trailing that they did coreward or spinward (where they could have easily go thorugh Corridor)?
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Old March 11th, 2016, 01:23 PM
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While pre-Consolidation Wars borders are not available (and are non trivial to derive from existing data), the Consolidation Wars have been described as the Vilani chasing down every race or polity with jump drive and absorbing them. When they ran out of competition in every direction, they stopped. The borders would not change again until the Terrans came along much later.

That didn't stop the local Vilani on the borders, as the GT tale of the Yileans illustrates, but even then the Vilani were only J2 capable. The Corridor between the Great Rift and the Windhorn Rift is a tenuous one for J2 at best.
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Old March 11th, 2016, 03:37 PM
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Also could it be as a result of Mains since they only had Jump 2?
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Old March 11th, 2016, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murph View Post
Also could it be as a result of Mains since they only had Jump 2?
Was going roughly the same thing. The Vilani just followed the mains at first and went there they took them. Decent link with a lot, including the Vilani main is here http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Main.
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Old March 11th, 2016, 09:24 PM
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Might in not also be a straightforward plot device for the game, so as to include Terra?
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Old March 11th, 2016, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
I was reviewing MT:V&V and in page 11 there's a map of what was the first Imperium.

It calls my attention that the expansion from Vland can be hardly seen as radial, as they expanded rimward and trailing quite farther than Coreward or spinward. While they stopped short of Terra (so about 4 Imperial sectors) in their Riward expansion, they just expanded a single sector Coreward. Similarly, while they expanded about 3 sectors trailing, they nearly didn't expand spinward.

Odd course, the Windhorn Rift precluded them to expand on the core-spinward direction, but they could well border it, and expand through Corridor (where they seem not having even probed) and Meshan (whose rimward half they colonized) to Gzaefueg Sectors...

Not having real barriers (as they did in the Great Rift), nor any opposition, it would be expected (at least IMHO) for them to expand in a more radial way to every posible direction.

After all, if they had reached coreward as far as they did spinward they'd reached even farther, and spinward they'd reached up to Foreven (and they would have engulfed even Lair, probably preventing Vargr from becoming a major race).

Is there any given explanation for this greater expansion rimward an trailing that they did coreward or spinward (where they could have easily go thorugh Corridor)?
None that I'm aware of but I've always wondered the same thing. The only answer I could come up with is the Vargr.
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Old March 12th, 2016, 05:13 AM
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The Vilani explored with jump 1 - there is practically no limit to how far you can go with a jump 1 drive and 50% of your hull given over to jump fuel.
But - once you jump into the unknown there are no starports, no spare parts, so 'safe' worlds. Every jump takes you one week away from such amenities, so how far to you risk exploring? One month, six months?
Do you build dedicated self sufficient exploration fleets? Who pays for them and why?

The Vilani built their Imperium slowly, the consolidation wars to establish its ultimate authority lasted over a thousand years. There is a good chance they printed 'here there be dragons' or the Vilani equivalent on their star charts to stop exploration much beyond the safe borders they established.

The next question could be why none of the lesser races had any interest in exploration beyond the ZS...
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Old March 12th, 2016, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
The Vilani explored with jump 1 - there is practically no limit to how far you can ...The next question could be why none of the lesser races had any interest in exploration beyond the ZS...
Well. Could be they we're compelled not too or the Vilani did not respect their scouting activities.
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Old March 12th, 2016, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murph View Post
Also could it be as a result of Mains since they only had Jump 2?
But, according to the same map, they expanded into The Narrows, Corridor by crossing several J2 gaps, and there they stopped short of another main. They did not have this problems when expanding rimward/trailing...

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Originally Posted by timerover51 View Post
Might in not also be a straightforward plot device for the game, so as to include Terra?
Sure, but that's a true metagaming explanation, not one that makes too much sense in OTU history sense.

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Originally Posted by savage View Post
None that I'm aware of but I've always wondered the same thing. The only answer I could come up with is the Vargr.
According the timetable in the same book (pages 60-61), the Vargr discovered jump drive in -3810, while consolidation wars began in -5420 and the First Imeprium was established in -4045. So, the Vargr could not be the cause, as they were still not a starfaring race (and have they been so, they will be attacked in the consolidation wars policy by the Vilani).
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Last edited by Magnus von Thornwood; March 13th, 2016 at 07:09 PM.. Reason: Corrected spacing. Magnus as Moderator.
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Old March 12th, 2016, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
According the timetable in the same book (pages 60-61), the Vargr discovered jump drive in -3810, while consolidation wars began in -5420 and the First Imeprium was established in -4045. So, the Vargr could not be the cause, as they were still not a starfaring race (and have they been so, they will be attacked in the consolidatio nwars policy by the Vilani).
Good point. I was not thinking of corsair forces and i did not check MT:Vilani and Vargr.
Canon could be weak on this. We don't know that they did not encounter Vargr offshoots. We have numerous human offshoots in charted space. Vargr offshoots have never been that clearly defined in the concave or closer to 1I. Starfaring and spacefaring are two different things.

It seems unlikely that the Ancients only tried one variation of the Vargr.

This is just an alternative thought. Vland may have wanted to fill in the "inner sphere" prior to expansion. They are planners. Using J1 routes is fine but J2 also go through Corridor sector. Perhaps the initial subsector worlds were not as rich as their rimward discoveries.
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