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In the OTU In the Official Traveller Universe. Any milieux that's been published in any edition. Not for discussion of rules except in reference to how they reflect the OTU

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  #31  
Old February 14th, 2018, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Adam Dray View Post
There's no reason that a personality matrix on a wafer has to be nondeterministic--that is, "random." Sure, the default has free will and all, just like the real person, but you can program that out so that ten copies of a personality will all make exactly the same choices given the same inputs.

Of course, "given the same inputs" is a slippery slope. Butterfly effect and all that.
Wait. Why would you want a personality advising you without free will or randomness? Surely you could just run simulations on a computer to achieve the same result. the whole idea of having a personality wafer of your superior there is that it can react in the same way as the original and advise if not order you to take a particular course of action.

In other words, if you program out all the humanity, why not go all the way and remove the crew and turn the warship into a drone, or give whatever task is required to a robot of the appropriate type?



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In Agent of the Imperium, the agent personalities all have Imperial Warrants -- so they trump everyone in the chain of command. I don't think we see what happens to the general and admiral personalities, but I would guess the personality activates with its own rank?

Which makes me wonder. A naval officer given command probably also has some kind of Quarantine training to identify situations where you need to activate the Q agent wafer. And mostly, these are going to be WtF situations -- if you don't understand what's going on, you spin up the agent just to be safe.

But for a general, when do you activate a general wafer? It is basically advising you on something you are already supposed to be able to handle. Wouldn't it be seen as throwing in the towel to call up a wafer daddy to tell you what to do?
Okay I particularly ignored AoI because the Agent is empowered by Imperial Warrant.

Actually I assumed all those special wafers, Warlord, General etc. would be backed by Imperial warrent because they are what you turn to when the situation transcends the normal chain of command.

When I was reading AoI I started to wonder if the depiction of Imperial services were of a slightly dumbed down or neutered population. Those ships crews got themselves in a situation over and over where they got stuck. they got stuck, they checked the computer and it said activate the Agent....

Now I wonder if they were the equivalent of NPC crews and would real Travellers have had the where-with-all to take the steps the Agent did?

But back to the question. Lets say the AoI wafers are backed by their Imperial Warrants or equivalent. Your Admiral Adair only has her commission and orders appointing her to command the fleet. If she starts commanding by wafering herself to every ship in the fleet, or at least every task force flag ship, what happens when one of those copies gives an order that leads to a loss? Does the Admiral or the wafer go before a court of inquiry? What happens if the task force commander refuses to follow the orders of the copy?

The simplest way I can reason this out is the copy isn't in the chain of command, its presence is only advisory, like having very detailed orders that cover lots of contingencies. Now any officer that ignores orders (or a copy of his or her boss) will be in trouble unless they have good grounds for doing so.

[Edit]This is how I can best fit wafer tech in without changing what I'd call the human responsibility culture. If you can micro manage across interstellar distances using wafer copies, then that takes away a lot of the responsibility that Traveller assumes is placed on the Johnny on the spot.

Think of it this way as it applies to the game: With wafers the Patron can always be with and in control of the group of PCs. Now play that game....
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  #32  
Old February 14th, 2018, 04:38 PM
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The simplest way I can reason this out is the copy isn't in the chain of command, its presence is only advisory, like having very detailed orders that cover lots of contingencies. Now any officer that ignores orders (or a copy of his or her boss) will be in trouble unless they have good grounds for doing so.
I think this probably is how the wafertech would work -- as advisory only, though I could see the Imperium working through several iterations to get to this point. The whole feudal system is predicated on the fact that because of the lag in interstellar communication you have to empower the nobility to make decisions on behalf of the Emperor. (I love, by the way, your note that orders were previously called "advices," something I will totally use for MTU.)

Putting wafer personalities in the military chain of command, except in Imperium-level threats, just seems to be asking for trouble.
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Old February 14th, 2018, 05:18 PM
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I think the answer is yes, but I also don't think it breaks prior canon. (Bends, maybe.) What makes the Third Imperium so unusual as a setting is we have all sorts of minute details such as where each and every AHL was built but we lack really basic information as to what everyday life in the Imperium is like.

I think all these new T5 technologies have, like robots and the Amindii, always been there. Just in the background and largely irrelevent for most people most of the time. I'm sure nobles care a great great deal about clone succession and so on, but for most people this is a problem that has very little effect on them personally.

To paraphrase another poster in another thread, just because we've never had a Library Data entry for "Commodes, Imperial" doens't mean that Citizens of the Imperium don't ever need to use one.
And what happens when a character with a societal level of 12 or higher fails an aging role and decides that he now has a clone and is back to having a 21 year old body, but all of his acquired skills are still there and available for use?
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  #34  
Old February 14th, 2018, 06:08 PM
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And what happens when a character with a societal level of 12 or higher fails an aging role and decides that he now has a clone and is back to having a 1 year old body, but all of his acquired skills are still there and available for use?
This. Probably.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cimp-eTe3MU
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Old February 14th, 2018, 07:15 PM
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Wafertech has widespread implications yes indeed. AotI shows a demonstrable need by Imperium itself, but do individuals have a need? But are relicts really a big deal in widespread use in the 3I? I go back to the idea about the Imperium not ruling the actual planets.
You are a product of your homeworld. Individual planets and cultures may have factors that prevent widespread adoption. Such as:
  • local TL - All you fancy smancy offworlders may be reckless with your lives, but here on the TL8 farm planet we know you only get one chance at a happy life.
  • Red Zone planets - No one gets in or out. If your planet is Red Zoned and you have relicts they are not going offworld to spread such ideas. If you are Red Zoned and don't have them how is anyone going to let you know?
  • Your homeworld's culture. This is the big X in the equation. The aforementioned worlds can be reasonably, statistically eliminated. So how many of the remaining worlds may or may allow Relicts?
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Old February 14th, 2018, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by timerover51 View Post
And what happens when a character with a societal level of 12 or higher fails an aging role and decides that he now has a clone and is back to having a 21 year old body, but all of his acquired skills are still there and available for use?
Put yourself in that character's shoes. You are still trapped in your meat shell and you are still going to die. There is an imposter that looks just like you, would have all your memories, but is not you. Would you really be comforted by the fact that that this homunculus will take up all your hard-earned experience while you dwindle, or would you maybe resent that lab grown thing, if only a little?

Relicts are not going to be affordable to most of the population of the Imperium and profoundly unattractive to most of those few who could.

They are most valuable to other people: the government, employers, grieving widows, widowers, or parents,

Last edited by Garnfellow; February 15th, 2018 at 01:57 PM.. Reason: comma
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Old February 14th, 2018, 07:21 PM
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If you can "bring the admiral with you", why would you simply not have it activated all the time, assuming the admiral is truly a better tactician than the commander.

The point of the upper staff is to keep their eye on the meta information of the battle and the campaign. The individual commanders handle their ever finer details. I guess it reduces the problems with vague orders for special situations.

But, going farther, why not replicate your best tacticians in consulting or leadership roles across the fleet, where they simply need to know the current situation and can act on current data, rather than needing higher level data that they won't have access to.

Then the actual officers are simply mechanism to manifest the orders of the replicated commander.
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Old February 15th, 2018, 01:41 PM
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Interestingly enough, Altered Carbon deals with this topic, and to some extent, Dungeons and Dragon's Azure Bonds.

How far do you retain your identity, and if consciousness is unique and transferable.
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