Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > General Traveller Discussions > Imperial Research Station

Imperial Research Station A forum for discussing technology and related topics for use in the Traveller Universe

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old December 5th, 2003, 01:07 AM
vegascat's Avatar
vegascat vegascat is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 949
Gallery : 0
vegascat Citizen
Post

Organ transplants are a path to a better life for all. The organs can come from people donating, selling or giving their organs to those in need. Someone who has made signifigant contributions to society, or has the money should be allowed to recieve an organ that will increase that persons life span or quality of life.

The only person not benifiting from an organ donation is the person suffering the donation the most, the organ doner. Should they not be compensated?

Criminals could be a wonderful source of organs. Instead of spending years rotting in a cell, a felon should be allowed to trade an organ for a shorter sentance. Someone who commits such a heinous crime to merit death should be allowed to repay society by donating his vital organs on execution. He won't be needing them anymore. It would be a way fro his crimes to be partially repaid. Repeat offenders should be allowed to contribute an appropriate organ for pennance. A person convicted of repeated drunk driving should contribute a cornea as a permanent reminder to not drink and drive. Some forward thinking countries like China already practice mandatory organ donation. Criminals pre execution are blood typed and their organs slated for reciepiants upon availability. Organ removal will also be a permanent reminder for those of a criminal bent to remain within the laws.

Cloning could open new horizons in organ transplants. An organ vat grown could replace a damaged or defective heart, liver, kidney, or anyother organ. Nobel prize winner have a horrendous accident? wouldn't it be nice to ease his pain and suffering? Clone him a new body. Hire a disadvantaged mother from a poor country, implant a cloned fetus, keep the mother on a healthy diet improving her life, and let her give berth. Hire a nursemaid for the cone and immediately lobotomize the clone to prevent the clone from being a legal person. When the clone has grown large enough to hold the brain of the person in pain, remove the mush grey cells from the clone and implant the brain of the worthy person. No person is hurt, but many are helped by such a merciful procedure.

Some people may decry organ selling as barbarous and akin to cannibalism. Bleeding heart liberals may think that taking a clone fetus and destroying it's mind horrendous, but is that really any more horrendous than allowing a worthy person to remain in pain and suffering? Some peole may think that selling organs could lead to organ legging, the illegal theft of organs from a productive member of society. If selling organs was made legal or cloned organs readily available, then the demand would drop for illegal organs to nothing, especially if an organlegging conviction brought a sentance of mandatory vital organ donation.

Thanks to Larry Niven for another wonderful idea on how to improve our worthy society.
__________________
The two things we all have in common, we are born of woman, and we will all inevitably die.
Some will have the honor to stand on the line falling while protecting kin and country instead of passing in bed, a pain riddled decayed old husk.
To dare is to live. To dare great things is to be remembered. In the end, Murphy will rule.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old December 5th, 2003, 02:17 AM
RainOfSteel RainOfSteel is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 2,670
Gallery : 0
RainOfSteel Citizen
Post

Transplants of organs from others is not currently perfect. They often require lifelong dependence on anti-rejection medication, like cyclosporin (and others), and the drugs themselves aren't perfect. It may never be compeletely perfect without advanced (and currently theoretical) nanotechnology.

Now, vat-grown organ clones of your own tissue, that would be far better (medical ethics "experts" who try to argue otherwise are idiots). No true people are ever involved, and the tissues are effectively your own. At this point of technology, growing cloned bodies for brain transplants is probably irrelevant, all tissue could be replaced, in stages, for a complete rejuvenation.
__________________
RainOfSteel may = RoS
--------------------
"The quality of the crate matters little. Success depends upon who sits in it." ~ Baron Manfred von Richtofen
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old December 5th, 2003, 07:14 AM
Drakon Drakon is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sunnyvale CA
Posts: 1,288
Gallery : 24
Visit Drakon's Blog
Drakon Citizen+Drakon Citizen+
Post

Or better yet, grow the organ in situ. You have a damaged kidney, figure out a way of telling your body to grow you a new one, using the old one as spare parts (or nutrients or whatever). Keep the process slow for most major organs so you don't get organ failure.

There was something on the news about a new cancer treatment that essentially tells your body's immune system to eat the tumors and leave the normal tissue alone. The next trick is to grow your new organ in place of the old one, while the old one is being eaten by the immune system.
__________________
Baron Lemish,Sir Harry of Slath, Tsamis, and Echiste K.S.R, KD, ------------Forn 0535 Slath D843210-7
Drakonian Aerospace LIC.-------------------------------------------------------Solo 1814 Tsamis A547986-E
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Spin 2313 Echiste C53A313-A
MCG Final Victory @ Emerald----------------------------------------------------Corr 1806 Lemish A79568C-C
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old December 5th, 2003, 04:38 PM
mike wightman's Avatar
mike wightman mike wightman is offline
Noble
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 16,722
Gallery : 0
mike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizen
Wink

I can not decide if this thread was begun with serious intent or satirical irony.
Anyway I have bitten, so if any of my views from here offend anyone, sorry in advance.
Quote:
Someone who has made signifigant contributions to society, or has the money should be allowed to recieve an organ that will increase that persons life span or quality of life.
How are you going to feel if Bill Gates is the same tissue type as you and "requires" you to be the organ donor?
Quote:
Someone who commits such a heinous crime to merit death should be allowed to repay society by donating his vital organs on execution.
This depends upon your society allowing state sanctioned murder as punishment for a crime.
Quote:
A person convicted of repeated drunk driving should contribute a cornea as a permanent reminder to not drink and drive
I hope you're going to ban them from driving as well .
Quote:
Hire a disadvantaged mother from a poor country, implant a cloned fetus, keep the mother on a healthy diet improving her life, and let her give berth.
After she has given birth then force her to give up the baby at gunpoint if she has formed a maternal bond with the child.
Quote:
Hire a nursemaid for the cone and immediately lobotomize the clone to prevent the clone from being a legal person.
As soon as the clone is born it should have the same rights as any other baby. Speaking of which, try some noun substitutions. Instead of the word clone try using baby, child, son, daughter, jew, catholic, african-american, englishman, scotsman, muslim, serb, etc I'm sure you've got the point by now. Labelling an "underclass" allows their de-humanisation and exploitation? I don't think so.
Quote:
No person is hurt,

Quote:
Thanks to Larry Niven for another wonderful idea on how to improve our worthy society.
Ah, you are joking [img]smile.gif[/img] .
You are, aren't you?
__________________
The beauty of CT LBB1-3 is that the ref is free to make such decisions for themselves.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old December 5th, 2003, 10:15 PM
vegascat's Avatar
vegascat vegascat is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 949
Gallery : 0
vegascat Citizen
Post

Welcome to a "BURNING BABY TEST"

Throw a burning baby into a crowded room and watch what happens. This is best done with a semi realistic looking baby doll instead of the real thing, unless you really like lynching.
The initial reactions of people to this test are very revealing to you, and them.
Who jumps back away from the baby?
Who dives on it to put the fire out?
Who gets the fire extinguisher conveniently placed in the room before the test?
Who grabs their camera to document the moment?
Who stands there screaming?
Who stands there laughing?
Who stands there catatonic?
Who stands there discussing the color of the flames with their buddy?
Who does something to put the baby out of its misery?
Who runs after the person who tossed the burning baby in the room?
And who knows what there think they would do in such a situation.

Who read this thread and made no comment?
Who thought about it but was unable to put your thoughts into words?
Who thought it must be a joke or beneath their notice?
Who didn't want to touch it with a 10LY pole?
Who still wants to make a comment?

This thread was a quick test to see people’s reactions to something I personally consider outrageously evil. I began this after seeing an editorial in a newspaper encouraging political action promoting the selling of organs for transplant. This is in the Imperial Research Station forum as research as a bit of research on peoples reactions. In less than 24 hours, I see a very intelligent reply.

I would like to thank Sigg Oddra for his reply and seeing this for what it was.
Quote:
I can not decide if this thread was begun with serious intent or satirical irony.
Quote:
Ah, you are joking.
You are, aren't you?
No I was NOT joking, but I was throwing some satirical irony at you. Transplants for profit are not something to joke about. This is something that is being discussed politically and some of you may see it on a ballot in the near future. When Larry Niven wrote Patchwork Girl, he was looking forward with a cautionary tale. Take it out and read it again so you can better consider the ramifications of transplants for fun and profit.

More comments are welcome.
__________________
The two things we all have in common, we are born of woman, and we will all inevitably die.
Some will have the honor to stand on the line falling while protecting kin and country instead of passing in bed, a pain riddled decayed old husk.
To dare is to live. To dare great things is to be remembered. In the end, Murphy will rule.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old December 6th, 2003, 09:17 AM
Drakon Drakon is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sunnyvale CA
Posts: 1,288
Gallery : 24
Visit Drakon's Blog
Drakon Citizen+Drakon Citizen+
Post

There is a problem in your investigative methodology. You did not actually throw a flaming baby into the room. What you did was write, and in the context of the traveller game. Far from looking at this mythical baby and noting the color of flame, or any other dismissive you cared to utilize, I simply pointed out that I don't think its something that will be done for very long. That modern medical technology, especially genetic research, is already giving us clues to bypass all the problems with transplants, and have them grown in situ, without outside sources or involving anyone other than the doctor himself.

I guess what I was saying was that flaming babies are so passe` [img]smile.gif[/img]
__________________
Baron Lemish,Sir Harry of Slath, Tsamis, and Echiste K.S.R, KD, ------------Forn 0535 Slath D843210-7
Drakonian Aerospace LIC.-------------------------------------------------------Solo 1814 Tsamis A547986-E
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Spin 2313 Echiste C53A313-A
MCG Final Victory @ Emerald----------------------------------------------------Corr 1806 Lemish A79568C-C
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old December 10th, 2003, 03:21 PM
Pwyll Pwyll is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 152
Gallery : 0
Pwyll Citizen
Talking

bah hah hah hah

sounds like great plot material to me.... say a player's relative goes missing on a hi-pop, mid-tech world that is notorious for its organ-legging gangs. Mr Niven came up with some really marvelous stories (ARM).
__________________
\"Fell deeds await. Now for wrath, now for ruin... and a red dawn!\"<br /><br />LBBish<br /><br /> <a href=\"http://traveller.actionwebdevelopment.com\" target=\"_blank\">Pwylls Traveller Page</a>
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old December 10th, 2003, 03:34 PM
trader jim's Avatar
trader jim trader jim is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Pacific Coast, California
Posts: 3,448
Gallery : 0
trader jim Citizen
Thumbs up

Hey.....hears a GREAT idea!!!!......Lets Transplant Vorpal Bunny Brains into JAME#1 and the GEORGE!!!!.....Maybt transplant Bunny Feet on BOTH........DAH HIPPITY HOP, DAH HIPPTY HOP, HOP, HOP,......And those TEETH would look GREAT!!!!!

Just joking of course...we all know that this was a JOKE....RIGHT???? [img]graemlins/file_23.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/file_21.gif[/img]
__________________
Whatta you mean, my accounts empty??
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old December 10th, 2003, 05:14 PM
Jame's Avatar
Jame Jame is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Generally, Damascaa Towns
Posts: 7,773
Gallery : 0
Jame Citizen
Post

Too bad that's what we've already done to our Trader Jim clones... [img]graemlins/file_23.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/file_23.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/file_23.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/file_23.gif[/img]

Anyway, why not use organ cloning as a profit industry, once we've got the technique debugged? Have someone give up some cell from an organ, say skin, heart or liver (for example), clone it, and make it available to those in need of transplant. A certain portion of the fee (say 5%) goes to the donor, perhaps.
__________________
Member #5, Bring Back T5 in LBBs.

"Unfortunately, the Publishers regret that they can enter into no correspondence on this matter. If the Publishers are involved in any correspondence, they shall trace and revoke your mail priveleges."

Baron Damaascaa Towns, Kiikigulii, 1735 Sakhag/Antares
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old December 10th, 2003, 06:58 PM
mike wightman's Avatar
mike wightman mike wightman is offline
Noble
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 16,722
Gallery : 0
mike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizen
Smile

I hate to drag this back to reality but I've just got around to reading last Sunday's newspaper magazine supplement (the UK Sunday Times) and talk about topical.
There is an article about Nadia Tkachenko, an alleged Ukrainian Mafia boss, who has been arrested and charged with selling babies, organs, babies organs (any of them), children, parts of children, handicapped children and sex slaves on the black market. Thr case has thrown up evidence of professional couples in Western Europe buying children and organs.
Looks like Larry Niven could have been on the right track.
__________________
The beauty of CT LBB1-3 is that the ref is free to make such decisions for themselves.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010- Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.