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Ship's Locker Submit your favorite original equipment and weapons for others to use in their own Traveller campaigns.

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  #11  
Old July 25th, 2012, 09:59 PM
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Finally, a no-nonsense and logical answer.

Thank you.
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  #12  
Old July 25th, 2012, 10:21 PM
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In realistic terms, fully automatic fire is generally a waste. The gun is inaccurate at anything more than very close range.

Then there is the ammuntion problem. Realistically a person can only carry 100 to 200 rounds (combination of bulk and weight) already made up in magazines. Maybe a bit more if you trade off other equipment.... Anyway, an automatic weapon goes through that pretty fast. Of course, part of that is the size and weight of the rounds. (One reason I like the Ruger 10/22 for a home defense rifle (big clips, light weight, lots of ammo, won't go through the neighbor's house but will stop you dead, go through a car, and is accurate when rapidly fired.)

Even with just game specified (and the character would have to be trained to do this in any case) four round bursts and 5 or so second rounds of combat you could burn off 100 rounds in a minute or so of fire. If that's all you have on you.... Opps!....

Jams are more common with many automatic weapons too, particularly when they get hot.

Another thing many less skilled individuals don't recognize or do is count rounds fired or automatically change clips. That is, they fire until the gun quits firing and then in mild surprise try to change clips at that point. More skilled shooters in such situations know how to combat load and also know enough to reload every chance they get with fresh clips saving the half full ones where possible.
So, it is not only possible but likely a person with say a submachinegun who has only basic skills with it (level 0 or 1 say) could find themselves in a combat round with just two rounds left in the clip after firing for several rounds short bursts and not paying attention to ammunition use.

So, in the current round they really don't have an automatic weapon. They get their one or two shots off and have an empty gun! That could be really bad if they had just decided to charge the baddies position....!
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  #13  
Old July 25th, 2012, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
Gunpowder is self-oxidizing (as are most explosives). The issue is one of lubrication, more than the ammunition. If lubed with the correct lube, yes. If not, for a few rounds.

Note that Gas-Op may have additional issues, due to pressure-based calibration (and the much more rapid drop once the barrel is open to space post-round).
Piston-driven gas-op would work more reliably. And some companies already make adjustable piston AR platforms like Ruger's SR-556 that might be pretty good for firing in vacuum.

Heat, as always would be a problem. It builds more rapidly in gas-piston systems than open ....and autofire weapons that fire from open bolts are more reliable than closed-bolt systems from a heat perspective.
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  #14  
Old July 26th, 2012, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabredog View Post
....and autofire weapons that fire from open bolts are more reliable than closed-bolt systems from a heat perspective.
If nothing else, because chamber heat has less time in contact with the round to propagate through the casing to the explosive.
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  #15  
Old July 26th, 2012, 01:57 AM
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Another likely vacuum problem is that the weapon will likely heat up faster as there is no conduction of heat just radiation of it off the various surfaces that have relatively small areas. That is, there is no air around the gun barrel and chamber to conduct heat away.

Another minor but present problem is smoke. As you fire, smoke from the burnt powder will build up around the weapon as there is no atmosphere to disperse it into. It wouldn't be as bad as black powder but "smokeless" powder still gives off some smoke when combusted.
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  #16  
Old July 26th, 2012, 02:19 AM
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Well, presumably...and this has been pointed out in other threads...since we are talking about a space-going civilization these issues have been addressed and solutions developed. So heat dispersal and retention might be addressed by purpose-built designs and materials technology.

And there is always the problem of recoil in zero-G: which will be when the majority of Uzi-in-a-vacuum incidents will occur. The problems inherent in that with a character who might not have the Zero-G Combat skill are bad enough without bringing in all the other issues. Just imagine ripping off a full magazine load of even more powerful ammo while floating in space, or even while one hand is on a grab rail in a corridor.
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  #17  
Old July 26th, 2012, 03:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoki View Post
Another likely vacuum problem is that the weapon will likely heat up faster as there is no conduction of heat just radiation of it off the various surfaces that have relatively small areas. That is, there is no air around the gun barrel and chamber to conduct heat away.
One of the things the brass case on a round does it take waste heat away with it - this was one of the issues caseless rounds couldn't cope with.

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Another minor but present problem is smoke. As you fire, smoke from the burnt powder will build up around the weapon as there is no atmosphere to disperse it into. It wouldn't be as bad as black powder but "smokeless" powder still gives off some smoke when combusted.
Nope. Just nope. You are firing in a vacuum remember?

What happens to smoke/gas in a vacuum - it spreads out really quickly.
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  #18  
Old July 26th, 2012, 03:54 AM
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The Vietnam-era M-16A1 had single and full-auto settings.

About 1980 the M-16A2 began entering service.
This had no full-auto setting... it had single and burst settings.
Burst fires 3 rounds per pull of the trigger.
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  #19  
Old July 26th, 2012, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post

Nope. Just nope. You are firing in a vacuum remember?

What happens to smoke/gas in a vacuum - it spreads out really quickly.
Misconception notice to BOTH of you.

What comes out of the barrel is a mixture of gas, ash/particulates, and unburned-but-still-burning powder granules.

The gas will pretty much immediately spread to invisibility.

The particulates, both ash and unburned-but-still-burning powder granules, are moving several hundred meters per second, and won't slow down until gravity makes them hit a surface (unless fired upwards). (In atmosphere, the particles slow down much faster than bullets due to much lower mass:drag ratios than bullets.)

It's worth noting that the unburned-but-still-burning powder granules will produce a bit of a glowing trail, and won't flare as they do in atmosphere - powder burns will occur at longer distances as atmospheric oxygen won't allow for faster burning, but the combustion will be potentially even less intense, since, again, no atmospheric oxygen is being added.

As anyone who has shot at close quarters can tell you, damage to stuff around you comes from both hot ash and burning powder embers, and if close enough, from the hot gas.

Another interesting thing is that modern gunpowder (nitrocellulose/nitroglycerine mixture) combustion produces still-flammable chemicals - part of muzzle flash is these volatiles being exposed to atmospheric oxygen. Namely, molecular hydrogen (H2) and Carbon monoxide (CO). The lack of air means this secondary combustion can't occur; muzzle flash will be reduced in intensity for lack of combustion. It will be further reduced for the longer travel due to lack of air-resistance.

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Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
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Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
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  #20  
Old July 26th, 2012, 04:23 AM
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Which leads me to believe that you better switch to an ETC or low-recoil energy weapons in vacuum...
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