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The Fleet Ship designs, strategies, and tactics.

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Old March 15th, 2008, 05:06 PM
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Default Computers!!!!

now that i have your attention.....



I have a PURELY intellectual question for once. just curious as to what YOUR opinions are as to limiting minimum computer sizes by dTon. what do you feel is the why and wherefore of it and/or do you actually use it.

and for no good reason at all whartung is not allowed to answer in less than 5000 words......

tee hee
tee hee
tee hee
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Old March 15th, 2008, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowdragon View Post
...limiting minimum computer sizes by dTon. what do you feel is the why and wherefore of it and/or do you actually use it.
Not sure I understand the question. Do you for example mean why can't a TL15 model/4 computer be less than 4 dtons? As in smaller because it's higher than it's TL of introduction?

Or is the question something else?

Oh wait! Do you mean minimum required computer by dton of ship?
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Old March 15th, 2008, 06:03 PM
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umm.. yes?
actually what i was gearing towards is yes the ship size vs computer model number. sorry i should have made that a little bit clearer. ok whartung, 4000 word limit instead.....my bad
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Old March 16th, 2008, 06:38 PM
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This is fundamentally connected to the question of Acceptable Approximations. Since that is a religious argument for Traveller gearheads, you will get either topic avoidance or flames, with little chance of anything in-between.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 08:19 PM
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How about flaming topic avoidance?

"Do you have flaming topic avoidance? Is there an itch here you just have to scratch, or do you have fatigue preventing you from scratching that recurring itch. Preparation QLI may be the cure you're looking for..."

I...I don't have time right now. But I can come back later.... :-)
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Old March 17th, 2008, 03:58 AM
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Me, I like the linkage, as for me the computer has come to be mostly wiring harness. It's the real TL limit for ships in the OTU.

I feel, however, the specific numbers are a bit off for my tastes. (I'd like Model 9 to be around 20 KTd... not 1,000,000...
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Old March 17th, 2008, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowdragon View Post
just curious as to what YOUR opinions are as to limiting minimum computer sizes by dTon. what do you feel is the why and wherefore of it and/or do you actually use it.
I have no problem with it as presented in High Guard. Once you accept FTL travel and reactionless drives, it becomes harder to sweat the little stuff. I think that the model 1 computer pre-dating the diode is odd, but it never seemed to hurt my TL 12 Free Trader.

I see a missed opportunity in the computer progression since ALL of the computer models are just multiple CPU and MEMORY units able to run the exact same software (except for the Jump Software). It might have been more interesting to create a basic unit of CPU/MEMORY unique to each TL and let the model of the computer represent the number of modules installed in that computer. Then there might be a size/cost difference between a TL 9 Model 3 Computer and a TL 13 Model 3 Computer (both could still run the Jump-3 Software).

I would also have liked to see the other software linked to the computer model number (Target-3 requires a model 3 computer, Evade-4 requires a model 4 computer). High Guard sort of did this by dropping the software and linking the combat details directly to the computer number.


Overall, starship computers seemed OK to me and I liked having a minimum computer for each ship size, I just think that more could have been done with computers vs ship sizes. One suggestion that I heard was to use the computer size ABOVE the minimum required for a hull size as the combat modifier in HG (instead of just the computer model). So a ship needing a model 2 computer because of it's size installing a model 5 computer would get a +3 combat bonus (instead of +5). I thought that this was an elegant concept.


[edit: I forgot to answer the Why of your question. Bigger ships have more 'widgets' that need monitoring, so the ship needs a bigger computer for normal operations.]

Last edited by atpollard; March 17th, 2008 at 10:20 AM..
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Old March 17th, 2008, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
.........I see a missed opportunity in the computer progression since ALL of the computer models are just multiple CPU and MEMORY units able to run the exact same software (except for the Jump Software). It might have been more interesting to create a basic unit of CPU/MEMORY unique to each TL and let the model of the computer represent the number of modules installed in that computer. Then there might be a size/cost difference between a TL 9 Model 3 Computer and a TL 13 Model 3 Computer (both could still run the Jump-3 Software).

I would also have liked to see the other software linked to the computer model number (Target-3 requires a model 3 computer, Evade-4 requires a model 4 computer). High Guard sort of did this by dropping the software and linking the combat details directly to the computer number.


Overall, starship computers seemed OK to me and I liked having a minimum computer for each ship size, I just think that more could have been done with computers vs ship sizes. One suggestion that I heard was to use the computer size ABOVE the minimum required for a hull size as the combat modifier in HG (instead of just the computer model). So a ship needing a model 2 computer because of it's size installing a model 5 computer would get a +3 combat bonus (instead of +5). I thought that this was an elegant concept.


[edit: I forgot to answer the Why of your question. Bigger ships have more 'widgets' that need monitoring, so the ship needs a bigger computer for normal operations.]


i personally like the idea of using the "optional" size modification for making advanced computers as listed, but i do it automatically, as a built in feature of more advanced technology being used to make the less advanced computer cores. i also reverse the system for "prototype" computers- such as when a society discovers parallel processors but have used linear cores for decades.

linking the programs to the model number is a nice idea- i will have to steal it, but i disagree with the flat "more widgets, more complex computer" idea. an 8088 can monitor thousands of widgets, just not with as many bells and whistles or with the speed a new dual core could. If maybe it could be considered that all sorts of subsystems were included in the "computer" much as all the extras included under the definition "bridge" i could agree with that.... whachewtink? include the computer, plus backups (which i just figured out a nifty solution of sorts for - got the size difference between starship comps and computer design to actually mesh, still need to play with it though). add in life support controls (which will skew my solution above) and anything else which my tired brain wont allow me to think of....
ideas?
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Book: Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps....
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Old March 20th, 2008, 04:53 PM
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Default OTU miscalculation!

I ran into problems with minimum computer sizes when I went to build the C-Jammer. Trillion Credit Squadron gives very specific transport capacities of the original three Islands Cluster transports. My C-Jammer design comes out to 238,000 dtons - well above what TL 9 computers can support.

Rather than the required model/6 computer, I assumed the transports used multiple cooperating lesser models. The C-Jammer carries 24 model 3/fib computers to do the job of one model/6, and carries 12 model 3/fib as backup. In High Guard terms, it would have model/0 with respect to space combat; the massive network simply has too much raw data coming in to handle it all in real-time.

--Devin
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Old March 20th, 2008, 11:59 PM
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I always just assumed 'computers' was secret code for 'computers,controls and electronic doo-hickeys'....not a box of cpu's and memory.

and as a gearhead, when I do mean it to be actual computers, I just use variant rules I found on the 'net years ago to make up the box of cpu's and memory...and even then, I don't sweat the numbers so long as it feels okay.
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