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MegaTraveller Discuss of the MegaTraveller ruleset and the Rebellion Milieu

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  #111  
Old October 29th, 2004, 09:55 PM
jwdh71 jwdh71 is offline
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I must admit, the "Ihatei" invasions got to me as well, as they seemed a little forced. I did eventually stumble around to the idea that it was an actual invasion by large parts of the Heirate, having temporarily given up fighting against each other to take a big bite out of that oh so tempting neighbor...
The Vargr incursions I had problems with as well, but in a different way. The idea that the Vargr had gotten themselves organized enough to concentrate their forces and cut the Corridor was, and still is, a difficult idea to swallow. I can't justify it in the OTU, so I had to handwave it by saying it was some sort of mutant super-Vargr who had massive Charisma, and led whole nations into battle against the Imperium.
The Solomani I actually thought were done well, as I always thought the Confederation either had to confront the Imperium at some time, or face a breakup or severe change itself, which it seems it's about to in the GT-TU.
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  #112  
Old October 29th, 2004, 09:55 PM
jwdh71 jwdh71 is offline
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I must admit, the "Ihatei" invasions got to me as well, as they seemed a little forced. I did eventually stumble around to the idea that it was an actual invasion by large parts of the Heirate, having temporarily given up fighting against each other to take a big bite out of that oh so tempting neighbor...
The Vargr incursions I had problems with as well, but in a different way. The idea that the Vargr had gotten themselves organized enough to concentrate their forces and cut the Corridor was, and still is, a difficult idea to swallow. I can't justify it in the OTU, so I had to handwave it by saying it was some sort of mutant super-Vargr who had massive Charisma, and led whole nations into battle against the Imperium.
The Solomani I actually thought were done well, as I always thought the Confederation either had to confront the Imperium at some time, or face a breakup or severe change itself, which it seems it's about to in the GT-TU.
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  #113  
Old October 29th, 2004, 09:55 PM
jwdh71 jwdh71 is offline
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I must admit, the "Ihatei" invasions got to me as well, as they seemed a little forced. I did eventually stumble around to the idea that it was an actual invasion by large parts of the Heirate, having temporarily given up fighting against each other to take a big bite out of that oh so tempting neighbor...
The Vargr incursions I had problems with as well, but in a different way. The idea that the Vargr had gotten themselves organized enough to concentrate their forces and cut the Corridor was, and still is, a difficult idea to swallow. I can't justify it in the OTU, so I had to handwave it by saying it was some sort of mutant super-Vargr who had massive Charisma, and led whole nations into battle against the Imperium.
The Solomani I actually thought were done well, as I always thought the Confederation either had to confront the Imperium at some time, or face a breakup or severe change itself, which it seems it's about to in the GT-TU.
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  #114  
Old October 30th, 2004, 12:42 PM
RainOfSteel RainOfSteel is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by jwdh71:
I must admit, the "Ihatei" invasions got to me as well, as they seemed a little forced. I did eventually stumble around to the idea that it was an actual invasion by large parts of the Heirate,
I'd go along with that idea, as well. We could "call" them the Ihatei Invasion because of the colonists left behind in order to hold the grounds.

A large fraction of a "professional" Aslan navy sweeps into the Trojan Reach and Spinward Marches areas, and, after defeating the Imperial navy (reduced for call ups against the Zhodani), forces the High-Pop worlds into surrender with the threat of orbital bombardment.

However, even with the idea of several thousand relic ships (gathered up from across the Heirate) carrying the colonists, there wouldn't have been enough carriage to haul the hundreds of millions of colonists (necessary to provide even a modicum of pressure against the billions already present on such a world) and tens of millions (minimum) of troops to provide security (and both groups equipment) for each of the High-Pop High-Tech worlds in question.


Quote:
Originally posted by jwdh71:
The Vargr incursions I had problems with as well, but in a different way. The idea that the Vargr had gotten themselves organized enough to concentrate their forces and cut the Corridor was, and still is, a difficult idea to swallow.
For some reason, I never had as much problem with the fact of the Vargr incursions themselves.

I'd always assumed it was the "crux of history" type moment where everything came together to cause all the disparate forces to simultaneously attack.

But as for holding onto the newly seized territory . . . the only reason they did is becasue nothing came back to root them out. And the format of that "hold" would have been the various Vargr militaries in controlling the spacelanes, with raiders descending at will onto the planets for fresh plundering, looting, etc. The Vargr couldn't have occupied the worlds (they'd have plundred them with ground troops, yes, but not occupied) due to their own lack of reasonably available carriage capacity (their tougher time at organizing would have hurt, too).


Quote:
Originally posted by jwdh71:
I can't justify it in the OTU, so I had to handwave it by saying it was some sort of mutant super-Vargr who had massive Charisma, and led whole nations into battle against the Imperium.
The Solomani I actually thought were done well, as I always thought the Confederation either had to confront the Imperium at some time, or face a breakup or severe change itself, which it seems it's about to in the GT-TU.
I never did much work on the Solomani. So I have less to say about that.
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  #115  
Old October 30th, 2004, 12:42 PM
RainOfSteel RainOfSteel is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by jwdh71:
I must admit, the "Ihatei" invasions got to me as well, as they seemed a little forced. I did eventually stumble around to the idea that it was an actual invasion by large parts of the Heirate,
I'd go along with that idea, as well. We could "call" them the Ihatei Invasion because of the colonists left behind in order to hold the grounds.

A large fraction of a "professional" Aslan navy sweeps into the Trojan Reach and Spinward Marches areas, and, after defeating the Imperial navy (reduced for call ups against the Zhodani), forces the High-Pop worlds into surrender with the threat of orbital bombardment.

However, even with the idea of several thousand relic ships (gathered up from across the Heirate) carrying the colonists, there wouldn't have been enough carriage to haul the hundreds of millions of colonists (necessary to provide even a modicum of pressure against the billions already present on such a world) and tens of millions (minimum) of troops to provide security (and both groups equipment) for each of the High-Pop High-Tech worlds in question.


Quote:
Originally posted by jwdh71:
The Vargr incursions I had problems with as well, but in a different way. The idea that the Vargr had gotten themselves organized enough to concentrate their forces and cut the Corridor was, and still is, a difficult idea to swallow.
For some reason, I never had as much problem with the fact of the Vargr incursions themselves.

I'd always assumed it was the "crux of history" type moment where everything came together to cause all the disparate forces to simultaneously attack.

But as for holding onto the newly seized territory . . . the only reason they did is becasue nothing came back to root them out. And the format of that "hold" would have been the various Vargr militaries in controlling the spacelanes, with raiders descending at will onto the planets for fresh plundering, looting, etc. The Vargr couldn't have occupied the worlds (they'd have plundred them with ground troops, yes, but not occupied) due to their own lack of reasonably available carriage capacity (their tougher time at organizing would have hurt, too).


Quote:
Originally posted by jwdh71:
I can't justify it in the OTU, so I had to handwave it by saying it was some sort of mutant super-Vargr who had massive Charisma, and led whole nations into battle against the Imperium.
The Solomani I actually thought were done well, as I always thought the Confederation either had to confront the Imperium at some time, or face a breakup or severe change itself, which it seems it's about to in the GT-TU.
I never did much work on the Solomani. So I have less to say about that.
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  #116  
Old October 30th, 2004, 12:42 PM
RainOfSteel RainOfSteel is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by jwdh71:
I must admit, the "Ihatei" invasions got to me as well, as they seemed a little forced. I did eventually stumble around to the idea that it was an actual invasion by large parts of the Heirate,
I'd go along with that idea, as well. We could "call" them the Ihatei Invasion because of the colonists left behind in order to hold the grounds.

A large fraction of a "professional" Aslan navy sweeps into the Trojan Reach and Spinward Marches areas, and, after defeating the Imperial navy (reduced for call ups against the Zhodani), forces the High-Pop worlds into surrender with the threat of orbital bombardment.

However, even with the idea of several thousand relic ships (gathered up from across the Heirate) carrying the colonists, there wouldn't have been enough carriage to haul the hundreds of millions of colonists (necessary to provide even a modicum of pressure against the billions already present on such a world) and tens of millions (minimum) of troops to provide security (and both groups equipment) for each of the High-Pop High-Tech worlds in question.


Quote:
Originally posted by jwdh71:
The Vargr incursions I had problems with as well, but in a different way. The idea that the Vargr had gotten themselves organized enough to concentrate their forces and cut the Corridor was, and still is, a difficult idea to swallow.
For some reason, I never had as much problem with the fact of the Vargr incursions themselves.

I'd always assumed it was the "crux of history" type moment where everything came together to cause all the disparate forces to simultaneously attack.

But as for holding onto the newly seized territory . . . the only reason they did is becasue nothing came back to root them out. And the format of that "hold" would have been the various Vargr militaries in controlling the spacelanes, with raiders descending at will onto the planets for fresh plundering, looting, etc. The Vargr couldn't have occupied the worlds (they'd have plundred them with ground troops, yes, but not occupied) due to their own lack of reasonably available carriage capacity (their tougher time at organizing would have hurt, too).


Quote:
Originally posted by jwdh71:
I can't justify it in the OTU, so I had to handwave it by saying it was some sort of mutant super-Vargr who had massive Charisma, and led whole nations into battle against the Imperium.
The Solomani I actually thought were done well, as I always thought the Confederation either had to confront the Imperium at some time, or face a breakup or severe change itself, which it seems it's about to in the GT-TU.
I never did much work on the Solomani. So I have less to say about that.
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  #117  
Old October 30th, 2004, 09:37 PM
jgreely jgreely is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by RainOfSteel:
2D-Map. Because printing a 3D map useable by gamers in the context of the game is still impossible. Even if such a thing could be printed, I don't think the human visual system could ever comprehend it.
I don't know about that. I think Richard Garfield's Filthy Rich game did a pretty good job of presenting a 3D gameboard in a compact, comprehensible way, and the same could be done for Traveller mapping, simply printing N sector maps on transparency media and stacking them in a binder. In fact, it's already been done, including rules for 3D Jump drives.

Comprehending the data is easy. The hard part is figuring out how to keep the printing costs from pricing your game out of the market.

-j
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  #118  
Old October 30th, 2004, 09:37 PM
jgreely jgreely is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by RainOfSteel:
2D-Map. Because printing a 3D map useable by gamers in the context of the game is still impossible. Even if such a thing could be printed, I don't think the human visual system could ever comprehend it.
I don't know about that. I think Richard Garfield's Filthy Rich game did a pretty good job of presenting a 3D gameboard in a compact, comprehensible way, and the same could be done for Traveller mapping, simply printing N sector maps on transparency media and stacking them in a binder. In fact, it's already been done, including rules for 3D Jump drives.

Comprehending the data is easy. The hard part is figuring out how to keep the printing costs from pricing your game out of the market.

-j
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  #119  
Old October 30th, 2004, 09:37 PM
jgreely jgreely is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by RainOfSteel:
2D-Map. Because printing a 3D map useable by gamers in the context of the game is still impossible. Even if such a thing could be printed, I don't think the human visual system could ever comprehend it.
I don't know about that. I think Richard Garfield's Filthy Rich game did a pretty good job of presenting a 3D gameboard in a compact, comprehensible way, and the same could be done for Traveller mapping, simply printing N sector maps on transparency media and stacking them in a binder. In fact, it's already been done, including rules for 3D Jump drives.

Comprehending the data is easy. The hard part is figuring out how to keep the printing costs from pricing your game out of the market.

-j
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  #120  
Old October 31st, 2004, 09:38 AM
RainOfSteel RainOfSteel is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by J Greely:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RainOfSteel:
2D-Map. Because printing a 3D map useable by gamers in the context of the game is still impossible. Even if such a thing could be printed, I don't think the human visual system could ever comprehend it.
I don't know about that. I think Richard Garfield's Filthy Rich game did a pretty good job of presenting a 3D gameboard in a compact, comprehensible way, and the same could be done for Traveller mapping, simply printing N sector maps on transparency media and stacking them in a binder. In fact, it's already been done, including rules for 3D Jump drives.

Comprehending the data is easy. The hard part is figuring out how to keep the printing costs from pricing your game out of the market.

-j
</font>[/QUOTE]Stacking pages together allows a person to visually comprehend one page at a time. Seeing through all the symbols on a transparency will go how deep? When each layer is filled with different symbols in different locations? (Really, I don't know, never having seen this system.) Does the mind comprehend and visually embrace a few layers, and miss the others until they are uncovered?

Futher: Well, I'd consider stacking 2D maps and calling them a 3D map to be less than what I was thinking of when I wrote that printing a 3D map was still impossible, but I'll have to concede that I was also not trying to define was a 3D map was, there being many possibilities.

The example maps provided on the website are undoubtedly realistic. But they don't seem to go very far. I've been told by a variety of people (and read here an there), that once you go beyond 50ly, it's tougher and tougher to pin down the exact locations of smaller stars (like Sol) relative to our own. So extending this map, accurately, could be quite a problem.

The example maps don't seem to be very dense, Traveller-wise. J-3 to J-5 looks, on the face of it, to be necessary equipment, and you aren't going to find an economical tramp freighter loaded with an engine like that (yes, I acknowledge that not all campaigns run on a tramp freighter).
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