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Old July 27th, 2014, 12:05 PM
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Default CT Book 5 Small Craft Fuel Scoops

Morning all,

Book 2 indicates that streamlined hulls cost Cr1,000,000 per ton of hull and includes fuel scoops.

Per Book5 Hulls >= 100 tons that are streamlined or partially streamlined modify the hull's cost per page 23. Additionally, streamlined and partially streamlined hulls can be built with fuel scoops at cost Cr1,000 per ton of hull.

Small craft design states that fuel scoops are automatically assumed to be included in the design.

Do the fuel scoops on small craft follow the same cost rule as on streamlined and partially streamlined hulls >= 100 tons?
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Old July 27th, 2014, 09:44 PM
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I believe the intention there is that "included" should be taken to mean "included at no additional cost".
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Old July 27th, 2014, 11:46 PM
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Evening Piper,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piper View Post
I believe the intention there is that "included" should be taken to mean "included at no additional cost".
Thank you for the reply, which does help.
I'm torn between having the scoops included at no charge and following the starship and non-starships >= 100 tons cost rule.

I'll put into my spreadsheet an option to include or not include the cost of fuel scoops and check out the Consolidated CT Errata on page 27 for the Rampart fighters.

The first go round will be having them included at no cost, of course with my luck I won't match cost regardless of what I do.
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Old July 28th, 2014, 12:43 AM
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It doesn't help that the published designs are all incorrect. However, the CT07 Errata Rampart you're looking at is by the book correct, as near as I can tell, and does not charge for scoops. High Guard Shipyard makes no allowance for charging for scoops, if that helps - in fact, you'd have to manually add the price in somehow if you wanted to do that.

I can't quite make the CT07 Supplement 9 errata boats line up, but the difference is slight and it doesn't seem to correlate with the price of scoops.
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Old July 28th, 2014, 03:52 AM
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Evening Carlobrand,

Thank you for the reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlobrand View Post
It doesn't help that the published designs are all incorrect. However, the CT07 Errata Rampart you're looking at is by the book correct, as near as I can tell, and does not charge for scoops. High Guard Shipyard makes no allowance for charging for scoops, if that helps - in fact, you'd have to manually add the price in somehow if you wanted to do that.

I can't quite make the CT07 Supplement 9 errata boats line up, but the difference is slight and it doesn't seem to correlate with the price of scoops.
So far my spreadsheet matches the Consolidated CT Errata and HGS tons when I do not charge for the fuel scoops, but as usual my cost is off.

The reason for the cost being off is that I included the 1% architect's fee in the design cost. The small craft design process as far as I can tell does not say that the architect's fee is one of the details that differs from the process used for starships and non-starships of 100 tons or more. Of course the small craft design process doesn't say that the architect's fee is included either.

Without including the architect's fee my cost matches that shown on page 27 of Consolidated Ct Errata version 8 and HGS.

Since the starship and non-starship 100 tons or more require an architect's fee and the small craft does not say that the fee is dropped my opinion is that the fee needs to be applied.

I've asked about the fee on the Consolidated CT Errata forum, until there is clarification I'm including the architect's fee.
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Old July 28th, 2014, 12:44 PM
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I just reran HGS for the Consolidated CT Errata 15-ton laser fighter of page 27 and this time it worked.

HGS does include the architect's fee and my single hull cost matches. Unfortunately, my hulls in quantity cost doesn't match.

I thought that both CT Books 2 and 5 stated that the quantity discount is 80% of the single unit cost. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find the information again.

Can someone provide me with the page numbers for the discount percentage for both Book 2 and 5 please?
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Old July 28th, 2014, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snrdg082102 View Post
I just reran HGS for the Consolidated CT Errata 15-ton laser fighter of page 27 and this time it worked.

HGS does include the architect's fee and my single hull cost matches. Unfortunately, my hulls in quantity cost doesn't match.

I thought that both CT Books 2 and 5 stated that the quantity discount is 80% of the single unit cost. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find the information again.

Can someone provide me with the page numbers for the discount percentage for both Book 2 and 5 please?
CT LBB2 PG 12
Quote:
Standard designs are easier to produce; their prices reflect a 10% reduction in normal pricing.
CT LBB5, PG 20
Quote:
Ship Classes: Once a ship is built, a certain familiarity with the requirements of
construction is gained by the building crews, and a shipyard can then produce such
ships more rapidly and with greater efficiency. Additional identical ships built
following the initial ship in a class can be completed in 80% of the original time at
80% of the original construction cost.
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Old July 28th, 2014, 04:40 PM
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Let's trace it out with the errata Rampart as example, since we all seem to agree on that one. I'll take the numbers from the HGS text export and we can crosscheck those:

Hull: MCr 1.800
Armor: none
Maneuver Drive: 2.550 dT; MCr 1.275
No jump drive
Power Plant: 5.700 dT; MCr 17.100;
Fuel: 2.850 Td; free
Scoops: 0.000 dT; free
Purification Plant: none
Bridge: none
Computer Model/2: 2.000 dT; MCr 9.000
1 Double Laser Turret: 1.000 dT; MCr 2.000; and they're not charging for the turret
1 Couch: 0.500 dT; MCr 0.025
Cargo: 0.400 dT; MCr 0.000

Total cost of above components: MCr31.2

That did not include the Architect's Fee. The fee is stated separately, MCr 0.312 - and it's paid once, for the prototype. After that, they presumably can pull the design out of the files. CT Book 2 had a business about paying a small charge for the standard designs (Cr100), but that "loose change" transaction does not appear in High Guard.

HGS gives a cost in quantity of MCr 24.960, which is 80% of 31.2, which again is the cost without architect's fee. Perhaps you are adding the architect's fee to every ship?
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Old July 28th, 2014, 04:44 PM
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So 80% cost (i.e. 20% reduction).
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Old July 28th, 2014, 05:36 PM
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Hello atpollard,

Thank you very much

Quote:
Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
CT LBB2 PG 12
Quote:
Standard designs are easier to produce; their prices reflect a 10% reduction in normal pricing.
CT LBB5, PG 20
Quote:
Ship Classes: Once a ship is built, a certain familiarity with the requirements of construction is gained by the building crews, and a shipyard can then produce such ships more rapidly and with greater efficiency. Additional identical ships built following the initial ship in a class can be completed in 80% of the original time at 80% of the original construction cost.
I looked at both pages several times and totally missed them.
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