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  #1  
Old May 16th, 2005, 12:41 AM
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Hi All,

My PC's need a ship. While being marooned on a planet, I had them happen on to a Far Trader that had crash-landed 5 years hence. The ship is in a position to be salvaged.

Does any one have ideas around legal salvage? What hoops should they have to jump through? What licenses should they have to acquire, and how much should they cost?

I want them to have to work for it, but not make it impossible.

Any thoughts?

-David
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Old May 16th, 2005, 12:41 AM
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Hi All,

My PC's need a ship. While being marooned on a planet, I had them happen on to a Far Trader that had crash-landed 5 years hence. The ship is in a position to be salvaged.

Does any one have ideas around legal salvage? What hoops should they have to jump through? What licenses should they have to acquire, and how much should they cost?

I want them to have to work for it, but not make it impossible.

Any thoughts?

-David
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  #3  
Old May 16th, 2005, 02:14 AM
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IMTU, salvage is tricky. They might be able to get it up and running, but it's gonna be at least 10 years before they can own it clear... and if it wasn't paid off, the lienholder gets it, and they get a percentage, but not the ship.

Salvage, though, would be a good down with the lienholder.... assuming there are no other claims against the ship.
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IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
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OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
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Old May 16th, 2005, 02:14 AM
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IMTU, salvage is tricky. They might be able to get it up and running, but it's gonna be at least 10 years before they can own it clear... and if it wasn't paid off, the lienholder gets it, and they get a percentage, but not the ship.

Salvage, though, would be a good down with the lienholder.... assuming there are no other claims against the ship.
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aramis.hostman.us /trav
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
Marquis of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2410)
Baron of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2231)
Knight of the Iridium Throne (CORE 1434)
Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
Knight of Deneb (Spin 2532)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
Unless there is bold red text, presume my posts to be my personal material only.
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  #5  
Old May 16th, 2005, 08:33 AM
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IMTU salvors (people salvaging a ship) can get full and clear legal title to a ship they save, provided:
</font>
  • They did not contribute to (that is, make worse) the incident that caused the ship to be abandoned in the first place.</font>
  • No crimes were committed that contributed to the abandonment or to the salvage.</font>
  • All the work needed to save the ship was performed by the salvors, except for any help from the laws of nature.</font>
  • The previous crew/owner must have abandoned the ship with no realistic intention/expectation of ever returning to the ship.</font>
  • The ship is not a military vessel.</font>
If conditions are met and the ship is salved, the salvors gain full and clear ownership of the vessel once they get the ship "under command" once again. "Under command" means the ship is flying under its own power and control systems, with a crew aboard operating the vessel themselves. Of course, the salvors don't get the paperwork showing full and clear ownership until they get the ship to an Imperial starport and jump through some bureaucratic hoops to prove they met all the conditions for salvage.

All prior legal claims against a properly salved vessel are dismissed: all previous liens/cargo owners are assumed to have been paid off by insurance (and if they didn't =have= insurance that's their loss). Of course, this doesn't apply to any non-legal claims on a ship, say those held by a local crime boss who paid for the "special" additions to this ship.

Note that none of this applies to any military vessel of any kind, even a 10 ton gig. All military vessels remain the property of the owning government, even if the ship is a wreck pasted onto an asteroid or frozen inside a comet.

IMTU the megacorps have tried to get this status for all of their vessels, but have not been able to get the Imperial gov't to agree, except for the case of openly and properly registered paramilitary vessels of the megacorp's security division.

Note that it is possible to save an abandoned ship without ever getting it "under command." You might tow the vessel to safety or just find a lost ship and report its location. In such cases the person(s) finding/saving the ship are paid (by the ship owners, who are usually covered by insurance for this) a fee that covers their costs (if any) for saving the ship, plus a percentage of the value of ship and cargo. The fee is paid once the ship has been brought to an Imperial starport. The percentage is decided by the local Imperial gov't and is based on how dangerous and difficult the saving/finding of the ship was for the person(s) doing the work. The percentage is never very large (1% is typical for low risk/low work jobs) but even 1% of the price of a starship is a nice chunk of change.

IMTU it is also legal for the ship owners to offer partial ownership of the vessel instead of a cash payment. The partial ownership is usually ten times the cash payment percentage. This is commonly done by the megacorps, which then use fancy accounting and even fancier lawyers to keep the salvors from ever seeing any payoff from "their" ship's profits. However, as partial owners the salvors can get cut-rate passages on the vessel, and ship their own cargo aboard for less than the standard rate.

This type of "salvage" is possible for military vessels and the salvors will be paid a percentage of the value of the ship. So while you can't end up owning that lost heavy cruiser you found in the Oort Cloud, you can get rich by reporting its location to the Imperial Navy. Of course, the military will never give "partial ownership" of a warship to any individual.
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Old May 16th, 2005, 08:33 AM
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IMTU salvors (people salvaging a ship) can get full and clear legal title to a ship they save, provided:
</font>
  • They did not contribute to (that is, make worse) the incident that caused the ship to be abandoned in the first place.</font>
  • No crimes were committed that contributed to the abandonment or to the salvage.</font>
  • All the work needed to save the ship was performed by the salvors, except for any help from the laws of nature.</font>
  • The previous crew/owner must have abandoned the ship with no realistic intention/expectation of ever returning to the ship.</font>
  • The ship is not a military vessel.</font>
If conditions are met and the ship is salved, the salvors gain full and clear ownership of the vessel once they get the ship "under command" once again. "Under command" means the ship is flying under its own power and control systems, with a crew aboard operating the vessel themselves. Of course, the salvors don't get the paperwork showing full and clear ownership until they get the ship to an Imperial starport and jump through some bureaucratic hoops to prove they met all the conditions for salvage.

All prior legal claims against a properly salved vessel are dismissed: all previous liens/cargo owners are assumed to have been paid off by insurance (and if they didn't =have= insurance that's their loss). Of course, this doesn't apply to any non-legal claims on a ship, say those held by a local crime boss who paid for the "special" additions to this ship.

Note that none of this applies to any military vessel of any kind, even a 10 ton gig. All military vessels remain the property of the owning government, even if the ship is a wreck pasted onto an asteroid or frozen inside a comet.

IMTU the megacorps have tried to get this status for all of their vessels, but have not been able to get the Imperial gov't to agree, except for the case of openly and properly registered paramilitary vessels of the megacorp's security division.

Note that it is possible to save an abandoned ship without ever getting it "under command." You might tow the vessel to safety or just find a lost ship and report its location. In such cases the person(s) finding/saving the ship are paid (by the ship owners, who are usually covered by insurance for this) a fee that covers their costs (if any) for saving the ship, plus a percentage of the value of ship and cargo. The fee is paid once the ship has been brought to an Imperial starport. The percentage is decided by the local Imperial gov't and is based on how dangerous and difficult the saving/finding of the ship was for the person(s) doing the work. The percentage is never very large (1% is typical for low risk/low work jobs) but even 1% of the price of a starship is a nice chunk of change.

IMTU it is also legal for the ship owners to offer partial ownership of the vessel instead of a cash payment. The partial ownership is usually ten times the cash payment percentage. This is commonly done by the megacorps, which then use fancy accounting and even fancier lawyers to keep the salvors from ever seeing any payoff from "their" ship's profits. However, as partial owners the salvors can get cut-rate passages on the vessel, and ship their own cargo aboard for less than the standard rate.

This type of "salvage" is possible for military vessels and the salvors will be paid a percentage of the value of the ship. So while you can't end up owning that lost heavy cruiser you found in the Oort Cloud, you can get rich by reporting its location to the Imperial Navy. Of course, the military will never give "partial ownership" of a warship to any individual.
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  #7  
Old May 17th, 2005, 01:44 AM
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IMTU salvage depends on how long the ship has been missing , if there are any heirs to the property in a will or if the title is still owned by a bank. Generally if the bank has written it off as a loss or been paid by off by an insurance policy they can register it and keep it. That being said it normally takes a big pile of credits to get it back in proper working shape. If they want to sneaky, Eddie the ship registration guy can offer to get them a "title" to the ship all nice and legal with a pretty seal and a free Fauxwood frame. The new title could create more trouble (fun) for everybody.
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Old May 17th, 2005, 01:44 AM
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IMTU salvage depends on how long the ship has been missing , if there are any heirs to the property in a will or if the title is still owned by a bank. Generally if the bank has written it off as a loss or been paid by off by an insurance policy they can register it and keep it. That being said it normally takes a big pile of credits to get it back in proper working shape. If they want to sneaky, Eddie the ship registration guy can offer to get them a "title" to the ship all nice and legal with a pretty seal and a free Fauxwood frame. The new title could create more trouble (fun) for everybody.
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Old May 17th, 2005, 03:21 AM
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Dence,

The others covered the legal end of the salvage biz pretty well. So I'll tackle your question from another angle.

IMTU, a ship that crashlanded on a planet five years ago isn't going to be spaceworthy no matter how much work the PCs put into it. There will be bits and pieces of the ship that may be useful and worth salvaging, but the ship itself is pretty much worthless as a ship.

There is a big difference from a ship salavaged immediately after whatever incident forced its abandonment and a ship abandoned over five years ago.


Bill
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Old May 17th, 2005, 03:21 AM
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Dence,

The others covered the legal end of the salvage biz pretty well. So I'll tackle your question from another angle.

IMTU, a ship that crashlanded on a planet five years ago isn't going to be spaceworthy no matter how much work the PCs put into it. There will be bits and pieces of the ship that may be useful and worth salvaging, but the ship itself is pretty much worthless as a ship.

There is a big difference from a ship salavaged immediately after whatever incident forced its abandonment and a ship abandoned over five years ago.


Bill
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