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Agent of the Imperium Discussion of Marc Miller's Novel, Agent of the Imperium.

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  #91  
Old January 21st, 2017, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by whulorigan View Post
If it was a nova, then it ought to have a close orbiting white dwarf companion in the system for the stellar material to accrete onto.

TM lists the stars as M3V - M8V. That would work, correct?

I'm wondering about the system's post-nova contents. The physical portion of Kulabisha's UWP is completely unchanged. TM has the system also containing 2 other worlds, 2 gas giants, and 2 belts. Has that changed? Should that have changed?

I realize it's was "only" a nova, but shouldn't Kulabisha's atmosphere, and thus the hydrosphere, have changed somewhat? How would a nova effect the belts and giants too?

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IIRC, the Kebkh on Deyis II were in origin the species that DGP intended to be the larval/immature form of their "Primordials", which of course never saw print. They are tenuously related to certain visions seen in the city in Knightfall I believe.
ISTR something along those lines too. I'll have to pull out both products to check. It may be that the Kebkh were originally intended to be "orphaned" Primordials and then "dialed back" somehow. II also RC, Deyis II is somehow "featured" on the cover of one of the two early DGP products that became WBH.

And there's also the fact that, as explicitly stated in Knightfall, Deyis II is the location of one of the portals leading to the Primordial City's pocket universe.

AotI has Deyis II a First Imperium settled planet scrubbed into hellworld as late as 610.

MT has Deyis II a lush, unpopulated, backwater during the Rebellion.

AotI has the Kebkh known to the Imperium, integrated enough to use Imperial technology, and widespread enough for some of them to be working on Reference as late as 622.

MT has the paleolithic Kebkh completely unknown and unsuspected during the Rebellion.

As important as Deyis II seems to be in AtoI, I suspect Mr. Miller will be retconning that sole MT adventure rather than force how ever many miracles are needed to make the two accounts jibe.
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  #92  
Old January 21st, 2017, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
TM lists the stars as M3V - M8V. That would work, correct?
We'd need a white dwarf in there; in T5SS parlance e.g. M3V D M8V.

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I'm wondering about the system's post-nova contents. The physical portion of Kulabisha's UWP is completely unchanged. TM has the system also containing 2 other worlds, 2 gas giants, and 2 belts. Has that changed? Should that have changed?
Quick googling turns up: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1944AJ.....51...69M - McLaughlin, Dean B. "The effects of a nova upon a nearby planet"

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A planet of the same mass, size, and composition as the earth is assumed at a distance of one astronomical unit...

... received energy is only 0.6 calories per gram or enough to heat the entire crust... though only 300C... could raise 1.3x10^25 grams of silica to the melting point... this corresponds to a layer 12 kilometers deep....

Evidently the planet would come through the outburst very drastically altered superficially, but essentially intact as regards its total mass. It appears even probable that the continents and ocean basins would not suffer extensive changes of height and depth respectively.
So... yeah. We could fiddle with things and say that it's the far companion star that novas (i.e. make it M3V M8V D); the text has "That star out there..." I'll let someone else do the math but at a distance of hundreds of AU that's going to boil the atmosphere and the oceans but not the crust, which could allow for a recovery. Would it cool down enough in 500 years enough to merit that UWP?

Even if we keep it the primary going nova, the rest of the system should be fine at the course level we know about - a little cooked, and the ice moons probably a lot smaller, but still there.
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  #93  
Old January 21st, 2017, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
TM lists the stars as M3V - M8V. That would work, correct?
The code for White (Degenerate) Dwarf is "D". M3 V and M8 V are both Main Sequence "Red" Dwarfs (though the M8 V could possibly be a Brown Dwarf).

So either the M3 V or M8 V should be changed to the "D" code, or an additional star with the "D" code should be entered and delineated as a close companion to one of the two stars so that an accretion stream can flow onto the Degenerate Dwarf surface and create a brief surface thermonuclear flare-up. The fact that it is a Nova means that the Degenerate Dwarf still exists; had it detonated the entire star, it would have been a Type I Supernova.

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I realize it's was "only" a nova, but shouldn't Kulabisha's atmosphere, and thus the hydrosphere, have changed somewhat? How would a nova effect the belts and giants too?
Probably should be altered, but I do not know by how much, or whether 600 years of terraforming might have intervened.
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  #94  
Old January 21st, 2017, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inexorabletash View Post
Quick googling turns up: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1944AJ.....51...69M - McLaughlin, Dean B. "The effects of a nova upon a nearby planet"

Thanks. My Google-Fu has been weak lately.

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So... yeah. We could fiddle with things and say that it's the far companion star that novas (i.e. make it M3V M8V D); the text has "That star out there..." I'll let someone else do the math but at a distance of hundreds of AU that's going to boil the atmosphere and the oceans but not the crust, which could allow for a recovery.
That could work. Bad/close enough to kill the people, not bad/close enough to kill the planet.

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Would it cool down enough in 500 years enough to merit that UWP?
That's the 64 CrImp question. I can't see how the atmo and hydro spheres wouldn't be changed.

Heat the atmosphere, it expands, and the nova's increased "solar wind" should "strip" more of it away? Right? Wrong? Maybe? I dunno.

Heat the oceans, more water vapor in the air, larger greenhouse effect, atmosphere expands even more, and the nova's increased "solar wind" strips even more air and water away? Right? Wrong? Maybe? I dunno.

Sure, 300 degC means the mountains, continents, coastlines, and continental shelves didn't melt., but the atmosphere and sea levels should have changed.

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Even if we keep it the primary going nova, the rest of the system should be fine at the course level we know about - a little cooked, and the ice moons probably a lot smaller, but still there.
Coarse level. That's the key. Is the mainworld's UWP too coarse to show the effects I'm guessing may have occurred?

The rest of the system will have indications if you know where to look. Fewer volatiles in the belts, Kuipers, and Oort. Gas giants' atmo composition tweaked. The surfaces of ice moons and other bodies reworked, i.e. smaller craters and other features melted "smooth".

It's times like this I wish EDG still visited here.
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  #95  
Old January 21st, 2017, 08:49 PM
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I've shipped questions about Maaruur and Kulabisha off to Marc.

Thanks for the help, everyone!
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Old January 28th, 2017, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inexorabletash View Post
I've shipped questions about Maaruur and Kulabisha off to Marc.
And the word is:
  • Mararuur was intentionally a promoted secondary world. No change needed.
  • Kulabisha gains a white dwarf (code D) to allow the system to support a nova. That's been applied to TM.
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  #97  
Old February 17th, 2017, 09:54 PM
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Hey all;

Fascinating look for a casual player at the depth the Traveller Universe actually contains, and the educated thinking that goes into the analysis. Thank you all.

I got the book, first in e-form then in paperback. Read it the night I received it all the way through. Waited for the hard copy to re-read it, which I have done 4 times.

Just from a reader's stand point, I like the way Marc writes and lays out the story. Each chapter stands alone, but is also part of a whole. The last time I re-read it, one chapter at a time over the course of a week or so.

The story bears up, revealing a slightly different insight each time.

I must admit, that I looked at the novel as an alternate version, very closely paralleling the know universe, but with a mildly divergent quantum reality.
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Old May 1st, 2017, 01:14 AM
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Well, I finally got my hands on it and read it and it was good. I'll probably need to read it again to fully grasp some of the complexities. Well done Marc. I expect you'll never see this but well done. It really felt like Traveller all the way through. I'm not sure how well it would work for someone who can't read UWPS at a glance, but, never the less, well done.
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