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Ship's Locker Submit your favorite original equipment and weapons for others to use in their own Traveller campaigns.

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  #1  
Old January 19th, 2004, 03:15 PM
plop101 plop101 is offline
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I'm looking for conversions of the Mac-10 and Mac-11 SMG's into CT stats and/or MT stats.

Thanks in advance...
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  #2  
Old January 19th, 2004, 05:37 PM
kaladorn kaladorn is offline
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In what way do you suspect these differ significantly from the standard SMG in the game?

To my observation, they have:
1) potentially a lower sonic signature if a suppressor is attached
2) Potentially larger caliber rounds (11mm vs. 9mm, but then again, that's still 3 damage)
3) Similar ROF/AF targets
4) Perhaps greater concealability without the suppressor, but we don't really rate that anyway
5) Firing on probably the Handgun chart for difficulty and using the SMG skill
6) Having a variety of magazine capacities, such as 25, 30, 32, 40.

The Ingram MAC-10 or 11 is probably a lot like the standard SMG. It might have a different weight and nominal length, but weapon stats in MT are fairly course and most bullets do 3 damage. Penetration might or might not argue for being one better than a 9mm auto pistol, probably not without the suppressor on anyway for barrel length. Maybe not even then. And attenuation will be the same.

Hope that helps.
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  #3  
Old January 22nd, 2004, 03:42 PM
Uncle Bob Uncle Bob is offline
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I generally agree with Kaladorn here.
For all Macs use autopistol dex mods and range matrix. I suggest using the shoulder stock makes the range matrix -2 +2 0 -6 no

Mac 10 use SMG Weapons maxtrix

Mac 11 is in .380 ACP, essentially a body-pistol round. Autopistol dex mods and range table. But the MAC-10 should use this Weapon's Matrix:
+4 +4 -1 -4 +4 +2 -6

Sorry I took so long to respond
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Old January 23rd, 2004, 12:05 AM
plop101 plop101 is offline
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Well, I can go along with most of what you guys have said. I dug up the old Small Arms Guide from Twilight:2000, and the damage and penetration {armor} are exactly the same as the UZI, which in CT book one is one of the default examples for the submachinegun.

I guess my question revolves around ROF. The Small Arms Guide lists Mac-10 as having ROF of 11, as opposed to the Uzi's [4] ROF and the Sten Mk II's [3] ROF. Similarly, GURPS materials I've seen lists Mac-10 as having ROF 19 and Uzi as having ROF 10. So I guess I'm wondering if having more ROF (at least double) will make a difference in the stats?

Just pondering.
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  #5  
Old January 23rd, 2004, 12:44 AM
kaladorn kaladorn is offline
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From an MT PoV, you generally get a number of autofire target based on burst size, the assumption being you aren't engaged in fire at cyclic rates, but aimed bursts.

This means your burst, being a 4 round burst, will grant you two additional AF targets. To get 3 additional AF targets, I believe you need 10 round bursts. That'd drain a MAC mag real quick.

However, I do think the MAC should have the /R modifier in MT to allow it to have 'rapid fire'.
This would let you reflect its ability to drain the mag quite quick.

These cyclic differences are overrated in most games - you don't often take any real advantage of them. The only sensible spot I saw was a defense of giving the german G11 caseless AR some better stats because of its superfast ROF - this meant that the final shot of a burst was out of the barrel before the gun really started to climb. But otherwise, this kind of distinction rarely plays in except perhaps in sustained fire weapons like MMGs or HMGs.

You've only got a 25 or 30 round mag... do you really care that your cyclic rate is 3000 rpm? You can blow the mag off fast even in an UZI, and still hit sweet FA for the most part.
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Old January 23rd, 2004, 03:46 AM
Uncle Bob Uncle Bob is offline
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Uzi has a rof of 600 rpm. Mac 10 amd 9/10 1100 rpm, Mac11 1600 rpm.

I didn't note any of this because CT isn't this granular. Actually both MACs are famous for emptying their magazines in 1 or 2 bursts.


Other SMGs
M1928A1 Thompson -- 700 rpm (M1921 1000 rpm)
M3 "Grease Gun" -- 450 rpm
MP38 "Schmeisser" -- 500 rpm (and yes, I know Hugo didn't design it)
Sten gun -- 450 rpm
PPSh-41 "Burp gun" --900 rpm
m/45 "Swedish K" -- 600 rpm
HK MP5 -- 800 rpm

M16A1 -- 750 rpm
AKM -- 600 rpm
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  #7  
Old January 26th, 2004, 05:29 PM
plop101 plop101 is offline
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Kaladorn and Uncle Bob:

Belated Thank yous Guys, I really did appreciate your take on the issue.

I remember seeing the Mac-10 in a John Wayne movie, can't recal the name of it, it was one where he was trying to out do Clint Eastwood. Anyway, there is a car chase on a beach, and bad guys car pulls up next to JW's car. The Duke, one hand on the stearing wheel, picks up the Mac-10 with the other, and shreds the bad guys car. Probably WAY to cinematic, but ever since then I always had an affection for the Mac-10.

Again, thanks guys. If your PC's ever wind up at Arba/Spinward Marches, the SPA guys will give you a one time free ship refueling. [img]graemlins/omega.gif[/img]
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  #8  
Old January 26th, 2004, 07:55 PM
jchurchill jchurchill is offline
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I think that movie was called "McQ" or something like that...Wayne is an American policeman in London but I vaguely recall the scene.

Having had the opportunity to fire both the MAC 10 and it's smaller cousin the MAC 11 I can report that they are highly impractical and roar through entire magazine in the blinkof eye...whether the shooter wishes to or not. They are also wildly inaccurate and can be prone to jam. Other than that they are great fun to shoot.
If your target is about the distance of a good dining table you should have no problems. Just make sure that anything you do not wish to hit is directly behind you.

The MAC makes the Sterling or the Kulspruta ["Swedish K" beloved of the CIA in the 1960's and 1970's] look like sniper rifles. Both are a good bit bigger but are much more easily controlled, much less prone to jamming and the accuracy is not affected by the greater kick of the .45 cal.
[I also had a chance to fire both of these on another occ.] The best of the SMG's in my humble and limited exp. is the H&K MP-5. Accurate, lightweight and easy to control.
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  #9  
Old January 26th, 2004, 07:57 PM
kaladorn kaladorn is offline
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What's the hex coords and subsector letter for Arba?

I'll have my PCs in the Haaka Vilaaru (Star Wind) drop by....

(and has it a landgrab?)

On a note to Bob, I recall seeing 3000 rpm cyclic for something which I thought was the MAC-10, but it might have been the XM-177 or the G-11. Or, alternative 2, I could be utterly confused.

At any rate, the point is the same: The difference between 1000 rpm and 600-800 rpm isn't much if you're firing 3-5 round bursts, the way you are supposed to.

And in MT, Rapid Fire is rapid fire [img]smile.gif[/img]
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  #10  
Old January 27th, 2004, 02:49 AM
Uncle Bob Uncle Bob is offline
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Except it is a lot harder to squeeze off 3-4 rd bursts at 1000 rpm, it usually comes out 5-6.

SecretAgent, I concur about McQ and the MP5. A friend of mine had a MP5SD which was incredibly fun. I popped 3 one gallon jugs at 20m from the hip with three busrts, about 12 rounds. (First burst 6 rd "walked" onto the 1st jug, then thp-thp-thp and thp-thp-thp for 2nd and 3rd.)
For some reason my friends didn't believe me when I told them I hadn't fired one before.
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