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In My Traveller Universe Detail what parts of Traveller you do (or don't) use in your campaign.

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  #81  
Old August 6th, 2019, 10:30 PM
BwapTED BwapTED is offline
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Some forms of socialism and/or communism that I think might be fun for Traveller, on a world/national scale:


guild socialism

AI command economy

monastic communism

esclavagist socialism( Slaves classed as means of production, owned by state corporations or communal trusts)

Last edited by BwapTED; August 6th, 2019 at 11:59 PM..
  #82  
Old August 7th, 2019, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BwapTED View Post
Some forms of socialism and/or communism that I think might be fun for Traveller, on a world/national scale:


guild socialism

AI command economy

monastic communism

esclavagist socialism( Slaves classed as means of production, owned by state corporations or communal trusts)
Wouldn't they all be forms of state capitalism?

Actually, could an AI potentially be the best arbiter for a command economy due to being incorruptible unlike humans?
  #83  
Old August 7th, 2019, 01:34 AM
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Incorruptible?

Twitter taught Microsoft’s AI chatbot to be a racist @ in less than a day
  #84  
Old August 7th, 2019, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by wellis View Post
Wouldn't they all be forms of state capitalism?

Actually, could an AI potentially be the best arbiter for a command economy due to being incorruptible unlike humans?
Not if the AI is relying on humans to carry out the tasks that enforce the economy.
  #85  
Old August 7th, 2019, 12:23 PM
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Actually, could an AI potentially be the best arbiter for a command economy due to being incorruptible unlike humans?
Until the advent of true AI (and that is TL 17 in most Traveller versions), no computer wil lbe better than its progarmers...

And remember what is said: Artificial Intelligence will never overcome human stupidness (and that's about stupidness, not corruption).
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  #86  
Old August 7th, 2019, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by wellis View Post
Wouldn't they all be forms of state capitalism?

Actually, could an AI potentially be the best arbiter for a command economy due to being incorruptible unlike humans?
so.....the setting for Paranoia?

I'd say more, but Friend Computer would not approve and revoke my security clearance.....
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  #87  
Old August 11th, 2019, 04:02 AM
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Ogre's Factory States goes there re: AI command economy.


http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/articles...d/factory.html
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  #88  
Old September 17th, 2019, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanson's Roughriders View Post
So, I have had a love for Stalinist Russia in a space setting. What issues if any do you see a centralized government such as this?
Given the examples we have seen in game have been bureaucracies (1st Imp) or Dictatorships (2nd, 3rd Imperium), to employ some sort of Command Economy wouldn't be too difficult to imagine.

You would have subsector planning committees, and sector planning committees and Imperial Planning committees. Given it was higher tech, you'd think that AI would allow for a little bit better goods distribution (but not lots).

When rolling up a world outside the "Core" any results that have a population of 6 or more, and a government type other than 3, 8 or 9, A, B, F would be placed as a "6"

I would make the minimum law level for pop 6-7 to be B, since that's the level where you would need internal passports to travel. Any worlds population of 8+ would be minimum of D since this would allow people to live in their own state appointed apartments, but wouldn't allow for having curtains on them, and would have listening devices in the house, but still be loose enough for a functioning black market.

For low population worlds, you could designate "Utopian colonies" if the biosphere was livable, and allow a government level of 2 since in Marx they envisioned advanced societies to have absolute dictatorship democracies (no constitutional limits). Make it all on line, and make the Law Level "A" and people running around with tallies that run up as they garner infraction petitions, to eventually be seized and sent to prison work camps in system or nearby. [Kind of love this idea. Maybe a mechanic with plusses and minuses, and if it goes too negative off you go. Visible good deeds are plusses, and visible bad deeds minuses. Also a roll every day to award or demote each because people are voting all the time

I'd also allow "1" governments, which are state owned enterprise production, agricultural or mining facilities. Law level of at least 7 or 8 since guns might be given to go after local wildlife protecting herds, etc. On the Books B+

I would also make at least one world to have a population of 7-8, garden like settings, a "A" starport, a government of "0" (officially) and a Law Level of 0 (officially). This would be demonstrated "show world" where there are no laws or government, they officially have the state "withered away" a-la Marx. But in reality, the government is "A" and law level "C" since they keep tight control when dignitaries aren't around. Only people allowed on the planet with Social class of 8 or higher (since Social class in this context is position in the Stalinist pecking order) and they live in comparative luxury and privilege.

Of course all worlds that are uninhabitable could be "6" and a work camp, too.

Access to all but the bare necessities would require a Social level roll in addition to having the money. Or you can try the black market for 4x as much.
Some worlds won't have money, too, and privation would be normal since goods available would be basic and it would require a difficult roll on the Social to get anything more.

You would have to decide when someone is sent to a camp, would it just be them, or would it be the whole family. Precedent for both. And since your social level determines a lot, if you have a relative in the camps, this would impact your social level depending upon how close you were.

Social Standing would be a little bit fluid since it is more of a Party Loyalty score.
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Last edited by Bromo33333; September 17th, 2019 at 12:17 PM..
  #89  
Old September 17th, 2019, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
Until the advent of true AI (and that is TL 17 in most Traveller versions), no computer wil lbe better than its progarmers...

And remember what is said: Artificial Intelligence will never overcome human stupidness (and that's about stupidness, not corruption).
If you want to have the "Terror of State" you have to make sure you don't turn the game into Paranoia or Brazil, it would be very easy to do so. I would view AI's as assisting production, and processing routine paperwork (like requests to travel outside your home region). But I don't see a computer running the show. YOu still get to see the jaded bureaucrat when you appeal your application.

I have been thinking that the "Social Level" is a measure of how much the Party trusts you. And the AI's you interact with will do so based upon that. You could make access to certain things relative to this social class. Depending upon the region as a "Worker's Paradise" or just plain mean, will determine this.

Party members would be A+ Non party memebrs: Workers 8-9, Bureucrats and Scientists 7-8, Everyone else 6 or less (including factory managers).
Party members about 10% of the population. Possible mustering out benefit.
And Social standing subject to slow modification depending upon prestige.

Like someone who was an athlete (social standing of 6), wins a medal at a Sector game, might get boosted to a 9, or given party membership (A).

Party Membership (A) would be as far as anyone could go without actually jining the party apparatus. But someone with that would have better quarters, more privacy more freedom to travel, a few luxuries others don't get, and maybe even a private vehicle.
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  #90  
Old September 17th, 2019, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wellis View Post
Wouldn't they all be forms of state capitalism?

Actually, could an AI potentially be the best arbiter for a command economy due to being incorruptible unlike humans?
Possible Example: the AI might recommend eliminating internal travel visas to allow the free transport of goods to and from the cities on the planet. The Committee, sends a programmer back to fix the broken program to get something closer to the desired result which has a recommendation to simply increase production quotas by 10% and offer an extra 200g chocolate ration for all those hitting the goals as a bonus.
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