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Classic Traveller Discussion on the granddaddy of them all, Classic Traveller!

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Old June 4th, 2019, 09:26 PM
jlcapps jlcapps is offline
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Default Range bands and square grid activity

I'm new to Traveller and am having some trouble reconciling a couple of seemingly contradictory passages in The Traveller Book.

In the Personal Combat chapter, beneath the MOVEMENT heading, we get the explanation of ranges bands, "each representing approximately 25 meters." Three paragraphs later: "Characters may move one band per combat round if walking or two if running; animals may move faster, as covered in the chapter on animal encounters."

The range bands chart and the notes that accompany it on page 47 repeat this information and elaborate: "On square girds, one square should generally equal 1.5 meters. Other proportional values are also possible.

"One range band is approximately 17 squares (at 1.5 meters per square)."

That all adds up and makes sense to me.

However, in the Personal Combat chapter, beneath the WEAPONS USAGE heading (p.38) we are told:

Quote:
Square Grid Activity: Many deck plans, floor plans, or other maps for Traveller are drawn with a square grid, usually representing squares of 1.5 meters each. If grids of this or similar scales are used, then changes should be made to the range band system. Walking speed is 8 squares per combat round. Running is 16 squares per combat round. Greater speeds are in multiples of 8 squares per combat round. Specific activities such as opening doors or hatches each take one combat round, during which time the individual should be treated as evading.
This effectively halves the movement speed in combat from the other two references. Is there something I'm missing that makes these sections agree? The "square grid activity" section is clear that it changes the usual range band system, but it isn't (to me) clear why the change is necessary, nor is it actually clear how it changes it. I.e., is this a change to the scale, making the squares now effectively 3 meters? Or is it a change to the speed of the characters in combat, down to 12 meters from 25? Does it affect only movement, or does it also affect determination of the range of weapons?

I'm interested, because I like to (optionally) be able to move the action to a battlemat when the combat is "tactically interesting" (i.e., too hard to describe effectively). I like to be able to go back and forth between a grid and theater of the mind style. The usual range band rules are really great for the latter, but 17 squares/round is a lot of squares to move if you're using the grid. I'd like to keep them all on the table! So the change to 8 squares is pretty appealing for this reason.

I've run three sessions so far, ruling that we use the 8 square movement rate (same scale, 1.5 meters/square) when in a confined setting -- a building, a ship, etc. I leave the range of weapons unchanged. This has worked fine so far. But it's making me a little bonkers that I don't know what the "correct" way is to do this.

Thanks for any assistance!
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Old June 5th, 2019, 02:09 AM
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Pick one that works for you.

Issue here is that The Traveller book was released after Snapshot and AHL, thus ideas wandered in from those two games alongside the simple system that is in the book.
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Old June 5th, 2019, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by infojunky View Post
Issue here is that The Traveller book was released after Snapshot and AHL, thus ideas wandered in from those two games alongside the simple system that is in the book.


I see. Thanks for the info. So if I picked up the CD-ROM from farfutre.net, with the Snapshot and AHL rules, that would provide some additional context for the "square grid activity" rule? I was trying to delay adding in more rules until I had the ones in The Traveller Book down, but I guess I'm going to have to follow this rabbit down the hole.
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Old June 5th, 2019, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jlcapps View Post
I see. Thanks for the info. So if I picked up the CD-ROM from farfutre.net, with the Snapshot and AHL rules, that would provide some additional context for the "square grid activity" rule? I was trying to delay adding in more rules until I had the ones in The Traveller Book down, but I guess I'm going to have to follow this rabbit down the hole.

Good idea to have those on hand as it may suit your group's fights more, if they do more starship boarding/urban/research complex deck plan type fighting anyway.
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Old June 5th, 2019, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlcapps View Post
I see. Thanks for the info. So if I picked up the CD-ROM from farfutre.net, with the Snapshot and AHL rules, that would provide some additional context for the "square grid activity" rule? I was trying to delay adding in more rules until I had the ones in The Traveller Book down, but I guess I'm going to have to follow this rabbit down the hole.
Look at Snapshot, as it's core rules most match the combat rules in The Traveller Book (TTB). AHL is is a completely different but related fork.
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Old June 8th, 2019, 11:49 AM
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Welcome to Traveller! I believe it's a bit of errata. I stick with the Deluxe Traveller rules.

A post concerning this question I had a few years ago:

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Originally Posted by Axe View Post
Howdy!

Short and sweet. I suspect a problem and suggest the following:

The Traveller Book (201, 1982)
Page 38, WEAPONS USAGE, Square Grid Activity (Correction): Walking speed should be 17 squares per combat round (not 8 squares) and running speed should be 33 squares per combat round (not 16), to match the Speeds table on page 47, as well as other sources. Greater speeds are in multiples of 17 squares per combat round (not 8).


The size of the squares are 1.5 meters on page 38 and page 47 (Range Bands). These ranges are:
17 (1.5 meter) squares = 25.5 meters
33 (1.5 meter) squares = 49.5 meters

I've played Deluxe Traveller since it came out.
1 range band = 25 meters
Walking movement per combat round = 1 range band = 25 meters
Running movement per combat round = 2 range bands = 50 meters

Starter Taveller (page 20) states the same movement/range band rules as Deluxe Traveller.

In Striker, personnel move 50 meters per turn (30 seconds) while walking, 100 meters while running. Converted to Classic Traveller, personnel move 25 meters per turn (15 seconds) while walking, 50 meters while running.

Are the numbers given on page 38 correct, which are based upon Snapshot? I have only read the Snapshot rules and haven't looked deeply into the AP system.

A 12 meter (8 square) walking speed and a 24 meter (16 square) running speed doesn't seem to jive.


Make sure you download the errata (which includes clarifications), there's plenty to keep you on your toes. There has been more errata suggestions since Don moved on and can be found in the thread.

Cheers!
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Old June 8th, 2019, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axe View Post

Make sure you download the errata (which includes clarifications), there's plenty to keep you on your toes. There has been more errata suggestions since Don moved on and can be found in the thread.
Note while that is a good Idea, there is no errata for the section he is asking about.
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Old June 8th, 2019, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infojunky View Post
Note while that is a good Idea, there is no errata for the section he is asking about.
Agreed, and there has been errata found since the last posted update. A person new to CT may not realize the errata is a living, breathing, growing animal

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Old June 8th, 2019, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
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Agreed, and there has been errata found since the last posted update. A person new to CT may not realize the errata is a living, breathing, growing animal

Not to forget the Lost Rules supplement either.
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Old June 24th, 2019, 05:37 PM
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Default Snapshot was awesome! But it is a rabbit hole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlcapps View Post
I see. Thanks for the info. So if I picked up the CD-ROM from farfutre.net, with the Snapshot and AHL rules, that would provide some additional context for the "square grid activity" rule? I was trying to delay adding in more rules until I had the ones in The Traveller Book down, but I guess I'm going to have to follow this rabbit down the hole.
I wholly recommend Snapshot. Many times I have made the argument that it was the best supplement GDW ever produced for Traveller. And for this very reason. It made personal combat with figures on a square grid feasible, and fun!

But it does add a level of complexity. The physical characteristics of a character are used to determine how many "action points" that character has. It cost so many APs to walk one square, so many APs to run one square, so many APs to open a hatch, to make an aimed shot, and (as the title suggests,) so many APs to make a snap shot on the run.

What it will not do, is "provide some additional context for the 'square grid activity' rule." It uses its own system for movement and actions.

If you ever get a copy, I certainly hope you enjoy it as much as I did, back in the day!
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