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TWILIGHT: 2000 1E/2E Discussion of the Twilight: 2000 from GDW.

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  #1  
Old February 14th, 2005, 04:51 PM
montanakennedy montanakennedy is offline
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One of the things I have always wondered about in T2K is "why would gold become the common currency?"

I can understand if a particular government came out and started to issue coins a la D&D, but in a post-apocalyptic world AU won't have an intrinsic value. No one will be able to go to the bank and trade it in for currency.

I can understand a barter system citing a value in dollars, Euros, credits, etc. - 20 rounds of 9mm = $5 = a carton of Marlboros (a completely made up example - don't holler at me for values). I just don't know if I think it is right to go with GP as a currency.

Thoughts?

Dave
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Old February 14th, 2005, 05:46 PM
veltyen veltyen is offline
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Quote:
No one will be able to go to the bank and trade it in for currency.
No banks. Therefore nothing backing the probably counterfeit dollars you are carrying. No reason for anyone to honour them.

Throw away the money, the barter system you are proposing is the most likely outcome. Gold is easy to test that it is gold, has little useful worth and doesn't degrade very much over time. This makes it useful as currency.

Any coin or pig could be used as currency. Gold is just rarer and easier to carry then iron pigs.

Remember, coinage used to be made by the mines rather then any financial organisation. The stamp is the same thing as the stamp on any type of ingot, certifying that the ingot is of a certain weight and quality. If you want to barter, knowing that a 50kg marked lump of iron is of a certain weight and quality comes in handy.

Dollars, especially fiat dollars, are valued by the confidence in the issueing government. Think of them as share issues in the issueing corporation. Post apocalyptic governements would not have much confidence.
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Old February 15th, 2005, 07:27 AM
GJD GJD is offline
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Quote:
Gold is easy to test that it is gold, has little useful worth and doesn't degrade very much over time. This makes it useful as currency.
[/QB]
Its also rare - which means its difficult to get enough together to counterfiet.

T2000 had ther beginnings of a return to paper money oin the Poland campaign, where towards the end the Krakow ration chit was being used elswhere (outside of Krakow, that is) as a form of currency.

G.
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Old February 15th, 2005, 01:01 PM
TKalbfus TKalbfus is offline
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What about Swiss currency? The world blew up around them, but they weren't affected directly, only through their trading partners. How would World War III affect the Swiss currency? Alot of their external investments would go "kapoof!" I think. Swiss citizens who held stock in foreign companies would see their values plummet. I think their banking industry would survive, they'll hold many accounts of people who are no longer alive, just live those of holocaust victims during World War II. Foreign currency reserves would have no value. I think there would be inflation since there are fewer countries to import goods and services from. The Swiss would have to be more self reliant. Switzerland has no oil reserves and neither does France, but the North Sea Oil Deposits would remain intact, drilling could continue there, and oil could be shipped to France and transported through that country to Switzerland. Of interest to the PCs is that the International Red Cross is based in Switzerland and would still be up and running in the T2000 World. Of course volunteers from Switerland would find it difficult to get help to people who need it since they must travel through no-man's lands and not everybody will necessarily respect the international symbol of the Red Cross.
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Old February 15th, 2005, 01:56 PM
montanakennedy montanakennedy is offline
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Sorry, Tom, but I don't buy the "Switzerland is a going concern" argument. While I agree that Switzerland would have been pretty much left alone, they would have started to fall apart within a couple of years.

Regardless of whether or not the computers would have been fried by an EMP, virus, or any other issue, the computers would have been useless as soon as the power grid went down. Take out the computers, there go the banks. Also, with nothing to back the Swiss Franc (see the ration chit, above), why would the people use it?

NGOs like the Red Cross would have lost the "International" shortly after the loss of worldwide comms. I can see individual offices doing what they could, but the effect of any "international" organization would be nil within a few years.

The oil reserves (whether underground or in nice, happy storage tanks) would have questionable value depending on available refining capacity and replacement parts. Self-reliance only goes so far.

Lastly, I don't imagine that the Swiss government would appreciate wandering refugees/soldiers/etc. traipsing across their border, especially heavily armed (Similar to how the French/Belgian border had a no-man's-land surrounding it in V.1.0 and later). Yes, they are a caring nation. Yes, they support all in need. But, no, I do not think it would be the promised land you expect it to become.

Dave

PS - Carriage returns are always helpful when writing posts.
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Old February 15th, 2005, 03:25 PM
PBI PBI is offline
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I can't see the Swiss currency as being any more stable than anyone else. The one thing the Swiss might have going for them, apart from not being as heavily damaged as the rest of Europe, is that they might have more reserves of gold than most other places, but they'd still more than likely go to a gold currency for the same reasons that have been already stated earlier in the thread.

I could see the Swiss as being one of the leaders in re-establishing some form of paper currency, either right around the time the Krakow ration chit or slightly after, for all the same reasons that the Krakow chit started becoming valuable.
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Old February 15th, 2005, 10:32 PM
GJD GJD is offline
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The north sea oil reserves are also being guarded by the remains of the Royal Navy (a rowboat and a small fishing trawler, perhaps), as the remaining British government sees them as a key national resource. There is more detail in the Guide to the UK, but I don't have it to hand just now, I'm afraid.

G.
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Old February 16th, 2005, 12:36 AM
imported_Sgt_Biggles imported_Sgt_Biggles is offline
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I tend to agree that gold would be an unlikely medium of exchange. It would play a part in some economic circles, certainly as a hook to send the characters chasing after, but just where does the average world citizen come up with enough gold to use.

In Ver 1, gold included jewelry, silver, gems, anything which has, or had, a perceived value on its own. The T20 Ver of Twilight is going slightly a different route. Items for sell or trade will be rated in Trade Points. Most common items will be listed with a base Trade Point value, but a lot will depend upon the referee's determination of need.

A farmer who managed to acquire half a dozen mortar rounds really doesn't have any use for them. He couldn't trade them to another farmer for seed or live stock so their value is almost zero. On the other hand, a small militia squad who has the correct launcher would see them as a very valuable. The farmer needs a good rifle and some ammo, the militia squad wants the mortar and has several extra AK47's and a couple 100 rounds of spare ammo, now you have a trade. Regardless of the actual value of the items traded, both sides consider it a fair trade.

For those referees who don’t want the hassle, a trade point will have a value of about $10.

Thoughts? Easier? Harder?

Craig
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Old February 16th, 2005, 12:46 AM
imported_Sgt_Biggles imported_Sgt_Biggles is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Kalbfus:
What about Swiss currency? The world blew up around them, but they weren't affected directly in the T2000 World.
While the war never touched Switzerland directly, they were still hit hard enough for their economy to collapse and chaos to break out. Switzerland depends on imports. Once the transportation grid broke down, they became isolated and the need for everything from food to medicine to household goods sky-rocket. Riots break out, what little industry there is gets attacked by radicals; hunger, disease, cold, all play a part in bringing the Swiss to their knees.

Even if the financial institutions where able to protect their gold and silver stores from looters, they wouldn't be able to circulate it. The Swiss never manage to rise again. {sigh} No more swiss cheese.

Craig
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Old February 16th, 2005, 02:47 AM
TKalbfus TKalbfus is offline
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The Swiss can trade with France, which is right on their border, and through France they have access to the sea. France also has a Navy and plenty of nuclear reactors, it could easily sell electricity to Switzerland and it could take over the North Sea Oil fields without the British being able to do much about it.
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