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  #41  
Old September 27th, 2008, 03:33 PM
Allensh Allensh is offline
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Originally Posted by far-trader View Post
More playable for sure.

But you're not saying MGT went with the originals because it was more accurate and less playable are you? It's clearly not more accurate in any real way. And I don't think you mean they made a deliberate move to make it less playable.
No, certainly not. I was just speculating as to why GDW made that change. Myself, I use the values on the JG screen when I run CT, just because its easier; I don't think there's that much difference in playability myself.

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  #42  
Old September 27th, 2008, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allensh View Post
No, certainly not. I was just speculating as to why GDW made that change. Myself, I use the values on the JG screen when I run CT, just because its easier; I don't think there's that much difference in playability myself.

Allen
You can use the chart in Snapshot, which updates the JG chart. Or, you can use the charts I made and posted at http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Dis...ad.php?t=16893 (direct link http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Dis...2&d=1220434097 )

And they're a lot easier to read than the JG charts (black on green is tough on my eyes).

I also think that the revised damages are more logical and much more playable.

Last edited by tbeard1999; September 27th, 2008 at 06:21 PM..
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  #43  
Old October 7th, 2008, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
Well, we've now got shuriken catapults. Can gretchen really be that far behind?
Are gretchen somehow less plausable than Kkree or Hiver? Getting down to the brass tacks I have never been a huge fan of traveller aliens since the Aslan were given wierd hands. IMTU Aslan have human like hands with retractable claws just like the terran cats they were originally based on. why you may ask? Because this configuration seems to be the trend in the evolutionary records we have available. But thats a long time grudge I have.

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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
However, I am skeptical that amateurish attempts to lift miscellaneous wargear from WH40K will net the MGT design team anything but well deserved ridicule. And maybe just a little pity.
shuriken catapults are accelerater rifles or gauss rifles are they not?


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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
Ah, a new definition of the word "best"...

In any case, baldy stating something is *not* the same as making a coherent, well-supported argument.
That was a coherant well supported argument. I said MGT was the best version. it is.


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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
Maybe so, but what's *really* delusional is comparing MGT to a 2008 Mustang... More like a 2008 Yugo (if Yugos were still being made).
Opinion but we both can agree that the mythical 2008 yugo, if they made them would still be better than your cobbled togather rusted out 1950s VW. It would be delusional to think otherwise.

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I dunno...I think you're stretching here. Are you actually saying that plagiarizing WH40K is a *good* move for MGT?
As opposed to plagiarizing Robert A. Heinlien or Isaac Asomov? I think what ever moves the most units for mongoose traveller and brings the greatest number of new players into the game is a good thing.
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  #44  
Old October 7th, 2008, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamus View Post
Are gretchen somehow less plausable than Kkree or Hiver?
Is this a serious question?

Is there *any* plagiarism that you would not condone in MGT?

Quote:
shuriken catapults are accelerater rifles or gauss rifles are they not?
Uh, no. They are silly, absurd, implausible weapons haplessly plagiarized from a science fantasy wargame.

Quote:
In any case, baldy stating something is *not* the same as making a coherent, well-supported argument.
Quote:
That was a coherant well supported argument. I said MGT was the best version. it is.
<yawn>

Bald assertions are not "well supported arguments". They are, er, bald assertions.

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Opinion but we both can agree that the mythical 2008 yugo, if they made them would still be better than your cobbled togather rusted out 1950s VW. It would be delusional to think otherwise.
Well, I kinda think of CT as a 1959 Corvette...which would be infinitely preferable to the mythical Yugo...

http://www.usedcorvettesforsale.com/1959.shtml

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As opposed to plagiarizing Robert A. Heinlien or Isaac Asomov?
Are you actually comparing WH40K to the works of Heinlein and Asimov?

In any case, when someone buys an RPG called "Traveller," I think he's entitled to assume that he won't be getting a hodgepodge of plagiarized WH40K material.
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  #45  
Old October 7th, 2008, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamus View Post
Are gretchen somehow less plausable than Kkree or Hiver? Getting down to the brass tacks I have never been a huge fan of traveller aliens since the Aslan were given wierd hands. IMTU Aslan have human like hands with retractable claws just like the terran cats they were originally based on. why you may ask? Because this configuration seems to be the trend in the evolutionary records we have available. But thats a long time grudge I have.
The aslan hand configuration (with central thumb) mirrors certain therapod dinosaurs.

Heck, chickens feet are 3 vs 1... Ducks, too.

Some birds have 2 vs 2.

All provide oppositional use.
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  #46  
Old October 7th, 2008, 06:13 PM
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And to beat on a particularly abused cat, Aslan are not evolved from Terran Feline stock. Or any Terran stock for that matter.
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  #47  
Old October 7th, 2008, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by far-trader View Post
And to beat on a particularly abused cat, Aslan are not evolved from Terran Feline stock. Or any Terran stock for that matter.
Unlike the Vargr, Dolphins, Chimps*, Orangs*, and Ursa.

All the other races in Traveller are non-Terran stock.

*referenced but no CGen in Solomani & Aslan.
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  #48  
Old October 8th, 2008, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
The aslan hand configuration (with central thumb) mirrors certain therapod dinosaurs.

Heck, chickens feet are 3 vs 1... Ducks, too.

Some birds have 2 vs 2.

All provide oppositional use.

And none of these creatures climb about in jungle canopy or use tools. None of the hand configurations mentioned would have the strength and stability required to drive a nail with a hammer. The current Aslan hand is simply not plausable or believable.

A second point is that if a creature is evolved to fill a niche chances are it will be very similar to any other creature that fills the same environmental niche. Can any one of you explain why a warm blooded feline looking pouncer evolved on a african savanna environment would evolve hands like a chicken regardless of the sun the world is spinning around. Difference for the sake of difference is less believable than the human in a monster suit option.
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  #49  
Old October 8th, 2008, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
Is this a serious question?
All my questions are serious. maybe.

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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
Is there *any* plagiarism that you would not condone in MGT?
No. There is no original sci-fi. All sci-fi takes from all other sci-fi

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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
Uh, no. They are silly, absurd, implausible weapons haplessly plagiarized from a science fantasy wargame.
So are you saying that WH40K created the concept of the accelerator rifle or gauss rifle? that is what a shuriken catapult is regardless of the shape of the projectile.

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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
<yawn>
You're telling me. I work full time, go to fire academy full time and try to make time to play traveller and debate you on all of your misconceptions. Get some sleep.

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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
Bald assertions are not "well supported arguments". They are, er, bald assertions.
My bald assertions are well supported arguments.

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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
Well, I kinda think of CT as a 1959 Corvette...which would be infinitely preferable to the mythical Yugo...

http://www.usedcorvettesforsale.com/1959.shtml
Agree

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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
Are you actually comparing WH40K to the works of Heinlein and Asimov?
Yes in that WH40K was inspired to one degree or another by concepts found in asimov or heinlein works.

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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
In any case, when someone buys an RPG called "Traveller," I think he's entitled to assume that he won't be getting a hodgepodge of plagiarized WH40K material.
when you assume you make an ass of U and me.

Also since you want to debate the point a bit more please explain why the Gretchen is some how less believable than the KKree. Bear in mind that the gretchen and the ork of 40K are created species designed by the now lost brain boys as a slave/warrior servant race. The creators died out or devolved into snotlings while the creations went on to run amok in the galaxy. to me that is far more believable than intelligent militant herbivores. Meat is the reason we evolved intellect, why would you assume it would be different elsewhere?
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  #50  
Old October 8th, 2008, 04:44 PM
Allensh Allensh is offline
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"plagiarism" is a really strong word, basically an accusation.

So while we're at it, let's talk about things that Traveller has "borrowed" from other sources, very likely without gaining permission at the time...like oh say the names and concept for the Sword Worlds, which come from a book called "Space Viking" by H. Beam Piper. A book I am currently rereading, as it happens.

I don't think you can copyright the concept of a gun firing magnetically propelled discs, as I'm pretty sure it had probably been done before 40K. So, using it again in another context is not neccesarily "plagiarism".

Allen
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