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  #1  
Old May 10th, 2019, 08:31 AM
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Default Liquid Hydrogen as fuel

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/9/18...ff-bezos-space

"In fact, it is essential to the design of the BE-7 that will propel the Blue Moon lander, which runs on liquid hydrogen. “We’re using liquid hydrogen is because, ultimately, we’re going to be able to get hydrogen from that water on the Moon and be able to refuel these vehicles on the surface of the Moon,” Bezos said."

First the moon, then jump drives

Edit: And wilderness refueling!
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Old May 10th, 2019, 02:29 PM
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Liquid hydrogen isn't exactly a new thing in rocket fuels. Making liquid hydrogen on the moon, that is the key to refueling ships designed for deep space use.

A lot of machinery would need to be landed on the moon, and probably a manned base since robots couldn't cover every eventuality.

Please let this happen within my lifetime
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Old May 10th, 2019, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
Liquid hydrogen isn't exactly a new thing in rocket fuels. Making liquid hydrogen on the moon, that is the key to refueling ships designed for deep space use.

A lot of machinery would need to be landed on the moon, and probably a manned base since robots couldn't cover every eventuality.

Please let this happen within my lifetime
First, they have to find water in sufficiently large quantities that would produce large amounts of both oxygen and hydrogen for fuel. Do not forget that the hydrogen is going to need oxygen to burn. Then, they are going to have to move the equipment to breakdown the water into oxygen and hydrogen to start with. Then, they will need the equipment to liquify both the hydrogen and oxygen, and store it for use. Then there is the equipment to fuel any using vehicle.

I would not hold your breath.
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Old May 10th, 2019, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by timerover51 View Post
First, they have to find water in sufficiently large quantities that would produce large amounts of both oxygen and hydrogen for fuel.
that was found already in the polar craters
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Old May 11th, 2019, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by aramis View Post
that was found already in the polar craters
How much and in what form? I.E. How easy is it to harvest and process? And if it is in the polar craters, then you are going to have to bring power plant along with you.

Maybe late in the century, if then.
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Old May 11th, 2019, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by timerover51 View Post
Then, they are going to have to move the equipment to breakdown the water into oxygen and hydrogen to start with.
True, but that is the easiest part of the whole process. Space based photocells are a well proven technology from Gemini, Apollo, Skylab, the ISS and numerous satellites. Electrolytic cracking of water is a simple technology requiring only light weight equipment. The rest of the fuel delivery system is much harder.

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Then, they will need the equipment to liquify both the hydrogen and oxygen, and store it for use.
This should be orders of magnitude easier on the moon than on earth (from an energy efficiency perspective). In the shade, the moon is a lot closer to the LH2 temperature than any point on the Earth.

Quote:
Then there is the equipment to fuel any using vehicle.
Storage tanks and fuel transfer are going to be a critical technology to develop and perfect. However, LH2 is not unique in that. Any fuel they chose would need to be stored and transferred to a craft to make any space based system useful. This same technology is desperately needed for orbital refueling to allow light payloads to be lofted to orbit and fueled in orbit for more capable missions (whether manned, robotic exploration, or scientific instrumentation).

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I would not hold your breath.
The only real difference this time is there is no political component through NASA. A change in President or Congress can change NASA priorities, but it cannot dictate how a private citizen spends his money to create new technology.

Nothing proposed could not have been achieved in the 1970s using the then existing technology, it was a lack of desire to actually do it that prevented the many plans from becoming reality. To suggest that the goal is too hard using 21st Century technology is unrealistic.

To question it’s affordability is a valid concern.

Last edited by atpollard; May 11th, 2019 at 12:35 PM..
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Old May 11th, 2019, 02:56 AM
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Here is the NASA/JPL press release about water on the moon:
https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=7218

there is lots.

This is what all those global warming campaigners should be backing and campaigning for. Get heavy industry and power production off Earth.
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Old May 11th, 2019, 02:11 PM
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Just FYI:



“The test-flight version of SpaceX's "Starship" vehicle stands completed at the company's Texas test site. Elon Musk posted this photo on Twitter on Jan. 10, 2019.”

THIS is designed to be fully reusable and carry 100 metric tons to the surface of Mars ... the actual prototype is currently undergoing Flight Testing!

That could land a LOT of equipment on the moon.
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Old May 11th, 2019, 04:33 PM
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Looking at Bozos & Musk, I sort of wish we'd had such eccentric billionaire types funding space exploration through the 1980s.

Maybe the Shuttle disasters could've been avoided.

Still are there advantages to starting to go back to the Moon in today's time period instead of during the 1980s or 1990s?

Last edited by wellis; May 11th, 2019 at 09:36 PM..
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Old May 12th, 2019, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by wellis View Post
Looking at Bozos & Musk, I sort of wish we'd had such eccentric billionaire types funding space exploration through the 1980s.

Maybe the Shuttle disasters could've been avoided.

Still are there advantages to starting to go back to the Moon in today's time period instead of during the 1980s or 1990s?

Cultural seeds bearing fruit.


Today's space billionaires were kids during the latter moon landings, and I expect were inspired by all that.


Same thing with Von Braun and that moon shot movie.
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