Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > General Traveller Discussions > In My Traveller Universe

In My Traveller Universe Detail what parts of Traveller you do (or don't) use in your campaign.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old July 5th, 2018, 09:48 PM
Adam Dray's Avatar
Adam Dray Adam Dray is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 775
Gallery : 0
Visit Adam Dray's Blog
Adam Dray Citizen+Adam Dray Citizen+
Default

Yes, but not for long. No other planet in our solar system can easily accommodate an Earth-full of people, and we're talking about population doubling every 70 years.
__________________
Grand Duke Rhylanor, SPIN 2717 Rhylanor/Rhylanor A434934-F
Count Junidy, SPIN 3202 Junidy/Aramis B434ABD-B
Marquis Tuwayk/Deneb 0339
Marquis Smoug/Lunion 1729
Marquis Rech/Lanth 2112
Baron/ess Rech/Lanth 2112
Knight of Deneb Junidy/Aramis 3202
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old July 6th, 2018, 02:00 AM
mike wightman's Avatar
mike wightman mike wightman is offline
Noble
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 16,614
Gallery : 0
mike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizen
Default

Then we build O'Neill cylinders...

this week's Isaac Arthur video on colonizing Ceres, mining the asteroid belt is worth a watch.


Go to youtube and search.
__________________
The beauty of CT LBB1-3 is that the ref is free to make such decisions for themselves.

Last edited by mike wightman; March 31st, 2019 at 04:26 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old July 6th, 2018, 06:40 AM
Straybow's Avatar
Straybow Straybow is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: not too hot, not too cold
Posts: 1,804
Gallery : 0
Straybow Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Dray View Post
Sungates are 7- to 15-meter rings using edge technology involving superconductors and magnets. Each ring is quantum-entanglement-paired, molecule-by-molecule (where it counts), with its twin. They're not megastructures. They do use a lot of Thulium-169, but a modern world can produce enough metal for a new sungate in a month or two.
Ok, that's the 200 dT limit, unless your ship has the proportions of an uncooked spaghetti noodle. And it's called "sungate" because ???


What percentage of the structure has to be made of the quantum paired matter?I would think that making identical machines out of quantum paired atoms would be even more phenomenally expensive. You're synthesizing large (above iron fusion limit) atoms? In pairs? And then capturing the two atoms individually and adding them onto a piece of technology entirely built one atom at a time?


Quote:
Maybe it costs $1T to install a new sungate factory on a world, but I doubt it. You can ship the Thulium-169 in from existing mining operations, even through a sungate. Since sungates decohere when they pass through another sungate, they can only travel STL. So once you get to a new star, you start building a new sungate factory to reach the next star.
Hmmm. Why build a factory where you have no infrastructure? Just send the stargate factory through the gate. One machine at a time if the whole factory is too large to fit through.


Quote:
If that costs $1T, why do you bother?
It cost the USA $13B (maybe $50B in today's money) to go to the moon for a short visit. Why did they bother?
__________________
(\__/). Save a bunny, eat more Smurf! (Brought to you by the National Smurfmeat Council)
(='.'=) Smurf, the original blue meat! 1999, and (except that "Smurf" bit)
(")_(") tc+ ru- c+ au+ ls- pi he++ eti=0 hs++ pc++ !zuchai(=dilithium)
Han shot first, and per parsec pricing is RAW!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old July 6th, 2018, 06:42 AM
Straybow's Avatar
Straybow Straybow is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: not too hot, not too cold
Posts: 1,804
Gallery : 0
Straybow Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
The Voyager probes are still functional... except that their power curve is below full operation levels. Pioneer 10 is thought to be still semi-functional, but is beyond contact range. All three are over 40 years old...
Ummm, each of those probes is basically a '70s era calculator running off a radiothermal-electric generator. No life support, no complicated machinery. There are probably ocean-going vessels that are still operational after decades... but you don't die if something relatively minor goes wrong.
__________________
(\__/). Save a bunny, eat more Smurf! (Brought to you by the National Smurfmeat Council)
(='.'=) Smurf, the original blue meat! 1999, and (except that "Smurf" bit)
(")_(") tc+ ru- c+ au+ ls- pi he++ eti=0 hs++ pc++ !zuchai(=dilithium)
Han shot first, and per parsec pricing is RAW!
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old July 6th, 2018, 10:05 AM
kilemall kilemall is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,739
Gallery : 0
kilemall Respected Citizenkilemall Respected Citizenkilemall Respected Citizenkilemall Respected Citizenkilemall Respected Citizenkilemall Respected Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straybow View Post
It cost the USA $13B (maybe $50B in today's money) to go to the moon for a short visit. Why did they bother?



Cold war activity, PR, which system is the future communism or capitalism, etc.




This summarized stylized rant by Neil Tyson covers the reasoning and benefits pretty well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbIZU8cQWXc


So, to cover the OP's question, the functional equivalent might be a space race between the Paneuropean Federation and North American Combine nations (to use one game's future polities) for interstellar real estate and prestige.
__________________
YUMV- Your Universe May Vary.
YOMD- Your Opinion May Differ.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old July 7th, 2018, 03:48 PM
Adam Dray's Avatar
Adam Dray Adam Dray is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 775
Gallery : 0
Visit Adam Dray's Blog
Adam Dray Citizen+Adam Dray Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straybow View Post
Ok, that's the 200 dT limit, unless your ship has the proportions of an uncooked spaghetti noodle. And it's called "sungate" because ???
There is no jump in the Main Sequence setting. Only sungates, which are 7-10-meter rings installed in the magnetic field of a star, in entangled pairs. They're essentially teleportation devices or instantaneous wormholes.

There is no 200 dT limit. Ships must be small enough to fit through the gate. The larger ships tend to be "needle" designs.


Quote:
What percentage of the structure has to be made of the quantum paired matter?I would think that making identical machines out of quantum paired atoms would be even more phenomenally expensive. You're synthesizing large (above iron fusion limit) atoms? In pairs? And then capturing the two atoms individually and adding them onto a piece of technology entirely built one atom at a time?
Around 100 metric tonnes per gate.

The process is totally hand-wavium, just as jump technology is. I threw out the "one molecule at a time" thing off-the-cuff. It probably won't stick. Assume there's some kind of sufficiently advanced technology to pair one gate with another, in the quantum entanglement sense. I do realize we can barely do that today with a couple small atoms.


Quote:
Hmmm. Why build a factory where you have no infrastructure? Just send the stargate factory through the gate. One machine at a time if the whole factory is too large to fit through.
Yeah, that makes sense.


Quote:
It cost the USA $13B (maybe $50B in today's money) to go to the moon for a short visit. Why did they bother?
Because it the was the first time and we had to stick it to the commies.

After a few visits, excitement about going waned. No one build a permanent colony there.

I'm not talking about visiting places. If the people in my setting wanted to visit Gliese 832c, they'd send a probe with a lot of ansible bytes. And they do that as part of the process for deciding where to send a sungate.
__________________
Grand Duke Rhylanor, SPIN 2717 Rhylanor/Rhylanor A434934-F
Count Junidy, SPIN 3202 Junidy/Aramis B434ABD-B
Marquis Tuwayk/Deneb 0339
Marquis Smoug/Lunion 1729
Marquis Rech/Lanth 2112
Baron/ess Rech/Lanth 2112
Knight of Deneb Junidy/Aramis 3202
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old July 7th, 2018, 03:52 PM
Adam Dray's Avatar
Adam Dray Adam Dray is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 775
Gallery : 0
Visit Adam Dray's Blog
Adam Dray Citizen+Adam Dray Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilemall View Post
So, to cover the OP's question, the functional equivalent might be a space race between the Paneuropean Federation and North American Combine nations (to use one game's future polities) for interstellar real estate and prestige.
Thanks for bringing things back home.

I think that gets you to the next star, but not the next ten stars. I'm looking for a sustainable economic model that makes sense of expansion.

I'm coming to the realization that it just won't happen as quickly as I was hoping for the setting. It shouldn't be a deal breaker, but I was trying not to get too far out from "today," as that requires all kinds of predictions about society that I'm not ready to make.
__________________
Grand Duke Rhylanor, SPIN 2717 Rhylanor/Rhylanor A434934-F
Count Junidy, SPIN 3202 Junidy/Aramis B434ABD-B
Marquis Tuwayk/Deneb 0339
Marquis Smoug/Lunion 1729
Marquis Rech/Lanth 2112
Baron/ess Rech/Lanth 2112
Knight of Deneb Junidy/Aramis 3202
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old July 7th, 2018, 05:31 PM
wellis wellis is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Walnut
Posts: 370
Gallery : 0
wellis Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Dray View Post
Thanks for bringing things back home.

I think that gets you to the next star, but not the next ten stars. I'm looking for a sustainable economic model that makes sense of expansion.

I'm coming to the realization that it just won't happen as quickly as I was hoping for the setting. It shouldn't be a deal breaker, but I was trying not to get too far out from "today," as that requires all kinds of predictions about society that I'm not ready to make.
Hmm I guess in your setting, humanity would've been bottled up in the Solar System quite a bit longer than the 2070s or whenever Solomani developed jump drives in the OTU 3I setting?

What do you figure the current "year" would be in Main Sequence? Would the setting have its own special calendar, with Earth dates provided as well?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old July 8th, 2018, 03:06 AM
epicenter00's Avatar
epicenter00 epicenter00 is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 850
Gallery : 0
epicenter00 Citizen+epicenter00 Citizen+epicenter00 Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Dray View Post
Also, this assumes that we're finding earthlike planets that have similar amounts of colonizable surface. A water world offers little. A rocky superearth might offer 10 times the surface area of Earth; that can absorb overpopulation a lot longer than a planet comparable in size to Earth.
I would say that if humanity found an Earth-like world sufficiently similar to call it Earthlike people would want to go there. It's an instant sale, maybe with that guilty feeling of seeing something for sale online, realizing the price is a mistake, but you know they'll have to honor the price.

When I call it Earthlike, I mean it is a 'shirtsleeves' world. We will need to deal with the local biosphere in the realm of fantastic (and horrible) new diseases and so on. But otherwise, the amount of useable area would be pretty irrelevant. I personally find these Earthlike worlds where much of the world is habitable (like our Earth) would be very rare, so I tend to think worlds with some useable real estate might be more common. For instance, a world that is literally uninhabitable for humans at the equator and too hot overall, except for perhaps areas near the poles would be hot but habitable - this would be "earthlike" for me. Similarly, a world with an unstable eccentric orbit where it is pretty comfortable for a few months of its year but much of the time it is too cold (you know, it's unstable - this will only endure for about 10 million earth years) would still be habitable for humans.

I think worlds like this would be irresistible to humans. A few trillion dollars for a gate? It'd be pennies as far as humankind is concerned. Our governments and corporations would compete to build a gate to get there so we could look around settle, long before population pressures drove us off Earth.
__________________
"... to be truly happy a man has to live absolutely in the present - no thought as what's gone before and no thought of what lies ahead. But a life of meaning, a man is condemned to wallow in the past and obsess about the future."
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old July 9th, 2018, 12:51 PM
Adam Dray's Avatar
Adam Dray Adam Dray is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 775
Gallery : 0
Visit Adam Dray's Blog
Adam Dray Citizen+Adam Dray Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wellis View Post
What do you figure the current "year" would be in Main Sequence? Would the setting have its own special calendar, with Earth dates provided as well?
Part of what I'm doing here is trying to back into a "current year" by understanding how long it'd take to get to 30-40 systems.

If we use population as the expansion pressure, and not energy consumption, then we're doubling every 100 years:

2100 - 1 system (Sol)
2200 - 2 systems (+Proxima Centauri?)
2300 - 4 systems
2400 - 8 systems
2500 - 16 systems
2600 - 32 systems

log2(30) = 4.91, so 30 systems at about 2591.

If we use energy consumption as the expansion pressure, then we're x10 every 100 years:

2100 - 1 system
2200 - 10 systems
2300 - 100 systems

log10(30)=1.48, so 30 systems at about 2248.


Earth dates work fine, until I want to introduce a splinter hegemony that wants to do things their own way, I guess. I don't see much need for a complication there.
__________________
Grand Duke Rhylanor, SPIN 2717 Rhylanor/Rhylanor A434934-F
Count Junidy, SPIN 3202 Junidy/Aramis B434ABD-B
Marquis Tuwayk/Deneb 0339
Marquis Smoug/Lunion 1729
Marquis Rech/Lanth 2112
Baron/ess Rech/Lanth 2112
Knight of Deneb Junidy/Aramis 3202
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Galactic for Mac help. Border Reiver Software Solutions 2 May 6th, 2009 12:01 AM
Galactic question Baphomet69 Software Solutions 4 April 2nd, 2007 01:11 PM
Seeking Galactic aramis Software Solutions 6 April 24th, 2006 11:57 AM
Galactic Help? parmasson Software Solutions 7 July 28th, 2005 11:22 AM

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010- Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.