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  #21  
Old August 7th, 2016, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MThompson016 View Post
Just something that kind of fits here, but I noticed on the wiki that portions of the book aren't canon. Other than Smade's Planet/Gemini (SR 2433), what else is there?
The entirety of GT:Behind the Claw was declared non-canon. Everything else is, to my knowledge, canon if only present in the alternate (lorenverse) universe.
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  #22  
Old August 7th, 2016, 12:52 PM
LeperColony LeperColony is offline
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Ground Forces also uses the (in my opinion, terrible) concept of the Unified Armies of the Imperium. In GT, rather than the Imperial Army being raised, trained and equipped by the central government, it is instead made up of Imperialized units from individual planets.

This directly contradicts the IA as described in TNE, the version with which I am most familiar. And, from what I can recall of MT, it conflicts there too.
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  #23  
Old September 14th, 2016, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeperColony View Post
Ground Forces also uses the (in my opinion, terrible) concept of the Unified Armies of the Imperium. In GT, rather than the Imperial Army being raised, trained and equipped by the central government, it is instead made up of Imperialized units from individual planets.

This directly contradicts the IA as described in TNE, the version with which I am most familiar. And, from what I can recall of MT, it conflicts there too.
The very existence of an Imperial Army, sn assuming it exist if it is a small core to coordinate/support colonial ones or a full fighting forcé whas throughtly debated in this thread.

In fact, I don't remember any reference to it in MT (I know little about TNE).

While the Solomani Armies are described in MT:S&A (page 14-15) as being formed on its majority by planetary forces, coordinated and lastly commanded by the confederation Army, no such clear information is given (AFAIK) about the Imperials.
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  #24  
Old September 14th, 2016, 04:19 PM
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There are many quotes I could list for the existence of a standing Imperial Army, but the nailed on cert is from the intro to LBB6 Scouts:
Quote:
The Imperial Interstellar Scout Service is a major service within the Imperium.
equal in stature to the Imperial Army and the Imperial Navy
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Old September 14th, 2016, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
The very existence of an Imperial Army, sn assuming it exist if it is a small core to coordinate/support colonial ones or a full fighting forcé whas throughtly debated in this thread.

In fact, I don't remember any reference to it in MT (I know little about TNE).

While the Solomani Armies are described in MT:S&A (page 14-15) as being formed on its majority byy planetary forces, coordinated and lastly commanded by the conederation Army, no such clear information is given (AFAIK) about the Imperials.
It was (and is being) debated, but nothing was resolved. The sources are contradictory, so likely nothing will be.
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  #26  
Old September 14th, 2016, 11:43 PM
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All things considered - batting 100 is pretty much impossible where it comes to traveler. In this particular instance, I largely believe that the consensus is correct.

Many of the problems with TRAVELLER as a body of work stem from the fact that too few details were fleshed out in what I'd consider important defining characteristics of the Third Imperium, and in some instances, inferences were made that contradict other inferences. If one would read the latest installment in the Traveller Universe in the form of the Novel by Marc Miller, it appears that what is in the novel doesn't necessarily agree with what is in the body of works for Traveller (that's my take on it mind you!).

But more importantly, each GM has to try and make the Traveller Universe come to life in their own minds so that they can breathe life into it for their players. For me, the biggest problem stems from Human nature and power. For me, the power of the Imperium was never realistic and taking into account not only human nature, but the potential for corruption over time. The "rosy" picture painted of nobility without power but with power is so self-contradictory that I shake my head and marvel over it, not because of someone's vision, but lack of vision.

That aside, the biggest problem that ANY governing body will have is the need to have a monopoly on power. Without a loyal palace guard (so to speak), the Emperors of the Imperium will always be dependent upon the charity of men whose loyalty is to their home worlds first, the Iridium Throne second assuming that the Imperial Army is comprised of a polyglot of military institutions. Rome was right in keeping out Imperial Legions from within its boundaries (as a city) for fear that the soldiers would be more loyal to the Generals than to the senate. After that, it was an issue of the Soldiers being more loyal to rival potential emperors during the barracks wars (which the Imperium is supposedly taking inspiration from).

In the end, you either have a ruling class that is loyal to the state, or they demand loyalty to them FROM the state. Either way, that requires not only a loyal military at your side for defense, but it also requires an instrument that keeps potential rivals at bay.

So, yes - the background of the Imperial Army from GURPS is likely not very useful other than as inspiration for equipment and the like. I used the material in there to create a TO&E for a Battalion in order to price what it costs just for the personnel and their equipment. It was an eye opener to find that one battalion costs as much to raise as three Naval Destroyers (if anyone wants the spread sheet, let me know and I'll send it out. It would be nice to see that data gets retained going forward assuming there will be another generation of role players to carry on the traditions of TRAVELLER). Some say Tanks and vehicles cost too much, some say Naval vessels cost too little. Who is to say.

So, discount what is present in the grand scheme of things with respect to a grand unified army, and simply replace it with an Imperial Army. It would have its own traditions, its own methodology for instilling loyalty to the High Command, with the Iridium Throne the highest possible command of ALL Militaries. God save the Emperor!

Now, why do I hear the Imperial March from Vader playing in the background all of the sudden?
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  #27  
Old September 15th, 2016, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by LeperColony View Post
It was (and is being) debated, but nothing was resolved. The sources are contradictory, so likely nothing will be.
There is no contradiction in CT sources.
Authors of later works just missed the references due to unfamiliarity with extant canon or they brought their own pre-conceptions.
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  #28  
Old October 5th, 2016, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
Aside from the "GURPS Authors put way too many niggling details in"


GT preserves the "Loren says all marines are trained in battledress armor" controversy, which is contradictory to CT, MT, and T4 - where only some marines can even wear the stuff; further not all CT imperial marines have vacc suit as a formal skill, and we see Imperial Marines in other armors in multiple sources, which also postdate loren's article, so the assertiion that they wear it as a field uniform are also counter indicated. In MT and T4, all marines are capable of wearing a vacc suit, but lack the requisite skill to don Battledress - which requires either Battledress 0 or Vacc Suit 1. (I cannot tell which way T5 falls on this - T5 CGen still leaves me baffled.)
T5 answer is Marines have only one guaranteed skill
Fighter.
Fighter includes the knowledge for battledress, beams, blades, exotics, slug throwers, sprays, and unarmed.
So ALL non-commissioned marines, spacers, soldiers will have the battledress skill at skill-0 knowledge-0
otoh they do not necessarily know how to use vacc suit.
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  #29  
Old October 5th, 2016, 02:58 AM
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Probably Heinlein versus Pournelle.

I don't recall how the Fleet Marines were supposedly equipped, but the Line ones with bullet proof armour, at best. They were also considered expendable.

In the Imperium, you spend a lot of time and money recruiting and training them, and then sending them to where they should make others die, so if the Imperium can afford it, those assets should be protected with the best armour the Imperium can afford.
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  #30  
Old October 5th, 2016, 03:11 AM
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The writeup on the Huscarles notes that the 4518th LIR is a standard marine LIR at its core - only one company is BD equipped.
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