Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > Other Versions of Traveller > MegaTraveller

MegaTraveller Discuss of the MegaTraveller ruleset and the Rebellion Milieu

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old August 15th, 2006, 05:56 PM
Cymew Cymew is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posts: 362
Gallery : 0
Cymew Citizen
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark B.:

Dunno, does Cloth seem a bit too good, or are pentetrations a bit low for some weapons? Maybe that's a good thing, it will keep PCs alive, but I can't see why you'd wear Jack,Mesh or Flak, Law level apart.
Cloth is rated a bit high, and docking a point to make its AV 4 alleviates a bit. Changing the system more is probably even "better", though.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old August 16th, 2006, 03:41 AM
aramis's Avatar
aramis aramis is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Anchorage, AK, USofA
Posts: 29,416
Gallery : 56
Visit aramis's Blog
aramis has disabled reputation
Send a message via ICQ to aramis Send a message via AIM to aramis Send a message via Yahoo to aramis
Post

The problem with the 2d+Pen-AV directly for damage in MT is that not all weapons are created equal, and it breaks down on larger (>20Td) vehicles and weapons (Dmg != 3).

On the other hand, using 2d6+Pen-AV for multipliers DOES make sense:
2-: x0
3-6: x0.1
7-10: x0.5
11-14: x1
15+: x2

Note the changes were to match to the task system for memorability.

One could easily add a 19+ = x4 and 23+= x8 line, or smooth to
2-:
3 x0.1
4 x0.2
5 x0.3
6 x0.5
7 x0.5
8 x0.6
9 x0.7
10 x0.8
11 x1
12 x1.2
13 x1.4
14 x1.6
15 x1.8
16 x2.0
17 x2.2
18 x2.4
19 x2.6

or, more memorably but math intense
0- x0
1 to 20 rolled x .1
21+ x2

you can fit the curve a variety of ways.
__________________
~ Aramis
aramis.hostman.us /trav
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
Marquis of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2410)
Baron of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2231)
Knight of the Iridium Throne (CORE 1434)
Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
Knight of Deneb (Spin 2532)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
Unless there is bold red text, presume my posts to be my personal material only.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old August 16th, 2006, 05:09 AM
hemulen hemulen is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 113
Gallery : 0
hemulen Citizen
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Aramis:
The problem with the 2d+Pen-AV directly for damage in MT is that not all weapons are created equal, and it breaks down on larger (>20Td) vehicles and weapons (Dmg != 3).
Yes, you're right, I came to that conclusion last night after playing with some numbers. Oh well.

Quote:
On the other hand, using 2d6+Pen-AV for multipliers DOES make sense:

2-: x0
3-6: x0.1
7-10: x0.5
11-14: x1
15+: x2

Note the changes were to match to the task system for memorability.
Sure, nice idea! I'll play around with it at bit and see how it feels.

cheers,

Mark
__________________
In the beginning, there was (){}
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old August 16th, 2006, 06:03 AM
hemulen hemulen is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 113
Gallery : 0
hemulen Citizen
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Aramis:
or, more memorably but math intense
0- x0
1 to 20 rolled x .1
21+ x2
Ok. I guess you need the x2 maximum to stop it getting silly at high Penetration, else you could just do (2d6+Pen-AV) x 0.1 = multiplier.

If using this, you would remove the 2+, 4+ and 8+ multipliers from the normal MT "to hit" roll - would you use instead the Striker rule of "1 extra hit per +2 rolled over base number to hit", and the autofire bonuses from Striker?

e.g. SMG on full auto gets +4/+2/+1 to hit. At close range you need say 7+, if you roll, say, 7 +2(skill) +4(auto) = 13, that's 4 hits, distributed as you wish among valid autofire targets?

Then use 2d6 +3(SMG Pen)-AV on table as above.

cheers,

Mark
__________________
In the beginning, there was (){}
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old August 16th, 2006, 10:30 AM
hemulen hemulen is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 113
Gallery : 0
hemulen Citizen
Post

Thinking about it a bit more, I'm leaning towards only giving the extra hits for rolling above the needed "to hit" number for automatic fire, along with the autofire bonus. That then tells you how many hits you get and can distribute amongst the autofire targets. Any single shot weapon can only hit once and the (2d6+Pen-AV) multiplier will determine extra damage.

It would still handle pinpoint shots, as MT errata suggests to increase the difficulty by 1 band, and half the AV.

For conversion of autofire bonuses, Striker uses effective, long and extreme ranges, these vary per weapon and don't necessarily match up to the MT range bands. I'd be tempted to say that the autofire bonuses apply to Short (<5m) range, and are halved per range band after that, which sort of keeps it consistent with Penetration calculations. Don't know if that would mess up some of the larger weapons, I suppose you could have an autofire value a bit like the Penetration values, e.g. VRF Gauss +8/2 or similar.

cheers,

Mark
__________________
In the beginning, there was (){}
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old August 20th, 2006, 02:11 AM
DonM's Avatar
DonM DonM is offline
Absent Friend
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Saint Joseph
Posts: 3,314
Gallery : 0
DonM AwesomeDonM AwesomeDonM AwesomeDonM AwesomeDonM AwesomeDonM AwesomeDonM AwesomeDonM AwesomeDonM AwesomeDonM AwesomeDonM Awesome
Post

I've done some research and I think I've got some good answers for Mark B., and some items that are going to HAVE to be added to the errata...


Quote:
1. p68. Interrupts. The task is described as:

Routine. Movement speed (safe)

Whose movement speed, the interupter's or the interruptee's? And should it be a negative modifier?
The interrupters, and it's positive -- that's the standard design for a task, and it's implied by the errata on page 69 regarding hand-to-hand interrupts, and confirmed by the discussion in TD #18.

Quote:
Also, the text says:
"If this task is successful, it becomes the interrupting unit's turn. The interrupted units's turn is considered spent."

This seems at odds with the earlier wording in that section, which says "a unit can choose to interrupt another unit's turn and take it's turn in the middle of that unit's turn", and the example, which explicitly says that Dur Telemon will get to continue his movement after the other unit has interrupted.
Actually, the statement about Dur getting to continue his movement is his NEXT turn, as it says that then another pair of interrupts are possible, but for now both sides have used their interrupts. The interrupted unit's turn IS spent. The discussion of this EXACT issue in Travellers' Digest #18 confirms this. Another item to add to the errata, but it will need some rewriting...

Quote:
2. p75. Treatment. The task "to treat an injury" is defined as:

Difficult, Medical, Int, 10 min

Given the descriptive text, I think it should be

[Difficulty], Medical, Int, 10 min
In the Travellers' Digest #13 article on injuries and replacements, they change it to exactly as you describe:

To perform final treatment:
[treatment difficulty], Medical, Int, 10 min

With some additional rules as well; I've been trying to figure out how to incorporate this into the errata...

Quote:
3. p28 & 34. Gauss Pistol doesn't seem to be listed, it should presumably come under Handgun, and also as it's own skill.
As per the chart on p. 76, Gauss Pistol uses Handgun skill.

Quote:
4. p72 & 73 : Danger Space. These seem a bit weird in several ways:

- there is no method given for converting between the 1.5m and 15m scales, and halving the penetration "per square" would mean that the effect of the blast would change depending on the scale being used.

- The rules suggest that to see which targets in the danger space are hit, you roll for a hit on them. It doesn't really explain how. If you use the original task that was used to check for a hit, that means that the effect of the blast is determined by the range to the target, etc, which seems screwy. Also p 94 (RH column, near the top) mentions "All units within the danger space use the explosive detonation 'to hit' task covered under indirect fire". However, the only task given on p73 under "indirect fire" is that for hitting a targeted location with indirect fire. I believe that there is some rule or rules missing that cover being hit while in the danger space of an explosive/burst effect.
There is a specific discussion of the danger space issue in TD #12 that clears up a lot of this. The only missing indirect fire rules I'm aware of were for grenades, and those are in the errata.

Quote:
5. p73 : Autofire. There seems to be no benefit to autofire unless the target has adjacent targets. Earlier versions of Traveller allowed 2 "to hit" rolls vs the main target on autofire. Is this missing, or intentional?
There's a good discussion of this in TD #12; The short ruling is that you can actually target all of those adjacent target shots at the primary target if you want.

Quote:
6. Life Force: it seems fairly easy to get low or zero penetration hits that would cause fractional loss of life points e.g. SMG vs Cloth = Pen 3 vs Armour 5 = Zero penetration. On a normal hit, that's 3 x 0.1 = 0.3 damage. Is that tallied, or ignored as it is less than 1? If ignored, then this would seem to make many weapons virtually useless against Cloth armour or higher (maybe intentionally?).

I would rule that it counts I think, and fractional Life Force damage can be taken. After combat you check per whole point of damage taken, ignoring any remaining fractions.
I've always played the "many weapons virtually useless against Cloth" way... and there's a discussion in TD #17 that explains this, that I'm going to have to add to the errata... [img]smile.gif[/img]

Quote:
7. Healing: In the Healing and Treatment of wounds section, there is no real method given for converting back to Life Force for wounded characters. I suspect that the intent is that you add up the STR, DEX & END of the wounded character and convert on the Life Force table on p66 to get a new Hits Value for that character, but it's not explicitly mentioned at all.
I always thought this method was implied, but it does not appear to be explicitly stated. That's new errata, which is actually covered in the MTJ#4 Q&A, but not with a PAGE REFERENCE.
AARRRGH.

More errata updates soon [img]smile.gif[/img]
__________________
"I like Scouts, Scouts like me, we're just one big fam.... ARGGH!"
Don the Big Purple Traveller Dinosaur

Moderator of the ct-starships mailing list
Official Traveller Errata Collector (CT/MT/TNE/T4/T20/MGT/T5)
Official Archivist of Digest Group Publications
T5 Forum Hall Monitor and FFE Minion
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old August 20th, 2006, 06:07 AM
aramis's Avatar
aramis aramis is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Anchorage, AK, USofA
Posts: 29,416
Gallery : 56
Visit aramis's Blog
aramis has disabled reputation
Send a message via ICQ to aramis Send a message via AIM to aramis Send a message via Yahoo to aramis
Post

I'm waiting to mirror for the NEXT update.
__________________
~ Aramis
aramis.hostman.us /trav
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
Marquis of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2410)
Baron of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2231)
Knight of the Iridium Throne (CORE 1434)
Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
Knight of Deneb (Spin 2532)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
Unless there is bold red text, presume my posts to be my personal material only.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old August 20th, 2006, 07:45 AM
hemulen hemulen is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 113
Gallery : 0
hemulen Citizen
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by DonM:
I've done some research and I think I've got some good answers for Mark B., and some items that are going to HAVE to be added to the errata...
Many thanks for the reply:

Quote:
The interrupters, and it's positive -- that's the standard design for a task, and it's implied by the errata on page 69 regarding hand-to-hand interrupts, and confirmed by the discussion in TD #18.
Ok. I realised that it must be interrupter's speed when I looked at the equivalent spaceship combat task, which says to use Agility.

Quote:
Actually, the statement about Dur getting to continue his movement is his NEXT turn, as it says that then another pair of interrupts are possible, but for now both sides have used their interrupts. The interrupted unit's turn IS spent. The discussion of this EXACT issue in Travellers' Digest #18 confirms this. Another item to add to the errata, but it will need some rewriting...
Hm, I've always assumed that the one interrupt per side was there to prevent huge chains of interrupts occurring, i.e. you are only allowed one interrupt per side per opportunity. This would seem to be supported by the line "only one interupt is permitted per enemy attack or square of enemy movement". The example does specifically say that "When Dur moves another square, or if he shoots while moving down the hall, another pair of interrupts will become possible" which sort of implies that he can continue moving.

Doesn't the rule that they lose their turn result in the fact that as soon as someone tries to move or shoot, you should try and interrupt them, because they will then lose their turn, and if you fail to interrupt you lose nothing? I can't see any disadvantage to doing this every time, which seems a little odd, and would drag combats out unnecessarily.

Incidentally, the Starship combat rules have a slightly different wording: "If successful, it becomes the interrupting unit's turn; the unit's turn is considered spent for the combat round". Which could be taken to simply mean that using your interrupt turn uses your turn, i.e. you don't get a free turn on an interrupt.

Anyway, if the clarifications in TD explain it better, that's good!

Quote:
In the Travellers' Digest #13 article on injuries and replacements, they change it to exactly as you describe:

To perform final treatment:
[treatment difficulty], Medical, Int, 10 min

With some additional rules as well; I've been trying to figure out how to incorporate this into the errata...
Aha. Great!

Quote:
As per the chart on p. 76, Gauss Pistol uses Handgun skill.
Sure, just not listed in the skills listings.

Quote:
There is a specific discussion of the danger space issue in TD #12 that clears up a lot of this.
Aha. Any chance of seeing this discussion?

Quote:
Autofire: There's a good discussion of this in TD #12; The short ruling is that you can actually target all of those adjacent target shots at the primary target if you want.
Excellent, this makes sense.

Quote:
I've always played the "many weapons virtually useless against Cloth" way... and there's a discussion in TD #17 that explains this, that I'm going to have to add to the errata... [img]smile.gif[/img]
Yes please!

Quote:
Healing: I always thought this method was implied, but it does not appear to be explicitly stated. That's new errata, which is actually covered in the MTJ#4 Q&A, but not with a PAGE REFERENCE. AARRRGH.
Ok.

Quote:
More errata updates soon [img]smile.gif[/img]
Fantastic. Thanks for the info.

Mark
__________________
In the beginning, there was (){}
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old August 21st, 2006, 07:26 AM
hemulen hemulen is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 113
Gallery : 0
hemulen Citizen
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by DonM:
As per the chart on p. 76, Gauss Pistol uses Handgun skill.
Actually, just to be picky(!), that's not quite right. The entries in the table on p76 are used to determine the range difficulty (Handgun, Rifle, Thrown, TL FC). The skill used could be different, e.g. ARL uses Rifle range difficulties, but Heavy Weapons skill (I think this is mentioned in the Imperial Handbook under the weapon, but not on this table) to actually modify the difficulty when firing. Similarly for MGs, Recoilless Rifles etc. In this case, of course, the Gauss Pistol does use Handgun skill.

Also, on the table, the errata mentions that the Accelerator Rifle has Pen/Atten of 3/*, however, I don't know that the meaning of the * is explained (presumably that in zero-G there is no attenuation, but then what is it in a gravity field?). Come to think of it, any weapon will not suffer attenuation in Zero-G (well, maybe energy weapons will, and maybe air resistance if there is any).

cheers,

Mark
__________________
In the beginning, there was (){}
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old August 21st, 2006, 10:51 AM
hemulen hemulen is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 113
Gallery : 0
hemulen Citizen
Post

BTW, a couple of things I've noticed about the errata, on the corrections for the slugthrowers table (p9):

- Accelerator Rifle has Sig M/R and Recoil L, I think this should be Sig M and Recoil L/R. (And as mentioned above, the Pen/Atten 3/* needs some explanation of the *).

- the Assault Rifles (5mm and 7mm) have the same Pen/Atten (2/2). In my version of the rules the 7mm has 3/2, which seems more likely, else there's no difference between them, and brings them into line more with the other 7mm rounds.

- Auto Shotgun: Should it really have 20 rounds for pellets and 10 for all other ammo types? Everything else has the same number of rounds for all types.

cheers,

Mark
__________________
In the beginning, there was (){}
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010- Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.