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The Fleet Ship designs, strategies, and tactics.

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  #11  
Old June 1st, 2020, 10:37 PM
BRJN BRJN is offline
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Originally Posted by Xerxeskingofking View Post
nice, only critique I have is the lack of cargo space for supplies. for a independent patrol ship, I'd prefer more room to carry spare parts in. I normally aim off for about 10% displacement for cargo room for this reason
As a convoy escort, part of organizing the convoys will be restocking the escorts. You don't have to carry months and months of stuff yourself.
I really should use _Interstellar Wars_ to figure out how many man-days of rations you can stuff in a dTon. But if you have "about" as much cargo space as other patrol ships that size, you can call it Good Enough. (Maybe up-engine the ship to get your 2-3 performance at 400 tons and call the extra space a long-range cargo pod?)
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  #12  
Old June 2nd, 2020, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by BRJN View Post
Maybe up-engine the ship to get your 2-3 performance at 400 tons and call the extra space a long-range cargo pod?
I quite like that as an idea, and you wouldn't need 100tn, say a 30tn cargo module for a modular cutter. It would meet Xerxes specs and provide a heck of a lot of modular versatility which is easily swapped out at any A B or C starport. Fancy a 10tn fighter module? Perhaps a mixed cargo and low berth module for secure prisoner transfer.

Knocking up the variant, I liked the idea enough to incorporate a Cutter and two modules within the 300tn, sacrificing other features but retaining core specs.

Type 23a, Provincial Escort
300 ton, TL 11 Military Design, 206.63 MCr
11 crew plus 10 Marines (Command: 1+1, Engineers: 1+1, Flight: 0+1, Gunners: 1+1, Marines: 1+9, Specialists: 0+3, Medic: 0+1)
no passengers

__Ton._____MCr.____EP.____
| ___.__ | _24.00 | _.__ | Flattened Sphere, streamlined, fuel scoops
| _36.00 | _21.60 | _.__ | hull armour #3
| __7.00 | __0.03 | _.__ | purification plant
| _20.00 | __1.50 | _.__ | bridge
| __3.00 | _18.00 | 1.00 | computer model 3
| __9.00 | _36.00 | _.__ | drive jump #2
| _24.00 | _12.00 | _.__ | drive maneouver #3
| _27.00 | _81.00 | _.__ | power plant #3
| ___.__ | ___.__ | 6.00 | agility #2
| __9.00 | ___.__ | _.__ | fuel, PP endurance 4 weeks (12 weeks powered down)
| _30.00 | ___.__ | _.__ | fuel, jump range 1 parsec
| __1.00 | __0.75 | _.__ | sand caster (turret) #4 x1
| __2.00 | __4.50 | _.__ | HE/Nuc missile (turret) #3 x1
| _16.00 | __2.00 | _.__ | staterooms x4
| _34.00 | __4.25 | _.__ | cabins x17
| __2.00 | ___.__ | _.__ | 2 tons cargo capacity
| _30.00 | __1.00 | _.__ | cutter module, fuel
| _50.00 | ___.__ | _.__ | hanger space for 50 ton Cutter
‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒
| 300.00 | 206.63 | 7.00 EP used, PP generates 9.00 EPs

208.70 MCr (first ship, includes architect fees) built in 56 weeks
165.31 MCr (20% discount in volume, TCS) built in 45 weeks


One of the cutter modules is a fuel module, modified to allow the jump drive to access it's 30tn of fuel to extend jump range to J2.

The other module may be customized according to mission requirements. It is surface mounted allowing both internal access through standard access points and safe release of payload, for example, a 10tn fighter or a G-carrier. The fuel module may be placed here and its contents may still be used as jump fuel. Note that this implies two fuel modules allows a J2 followed by a J1 without refueling.

A Type 23a may in effect represent a 300tn warship, plus a fighting Cutter and a 10tn Fighter to a would be attacker. The 10 person squad of Marines allows for boarding and inspection actions. Up to three specialists (or military passengers) are also carried, often to oversee local commerce inspections.

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  #13  
Old June 2nd, 2020, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRJN View Post
As a convoy escort, part of organizing the convoys will be restocking the escorts. You don't have to carry months and months of stuff yourself.
I really should use _Interstellar Wars_ to figure out how many man-days of rations you can stuff in a dTon. But if you have "about" as much cargo space as other patrol ships that size, you can call it Good Enough. (Maybe up-engine the ship to get your 2-3 performance at 400 tons and call the extra space a long-range cargo pod?)
maybe, but just to name a canon trade route that has imperial convoys on it, the Fist-Tyokh route between the imperial trojan reach and the aslan section is 6 jumps long. the imperial navy doesn't go into aslan space, so if a ship goes off on a convoy, its not going to be back in imperial space for, roughly, 4-5 months, theirs not many hi tech worlds with the industry to makes spares (only wildeman and Tech-World have the TL for it, and both are low pop, non industrial worlds).

so, if you want to be certain that you can have spare parts available, you need to take them with you. Food and fuel isn't a issue, but what about, say, parts for your ECM rig?

Also, their are times that a lone escort out in the boonies might be required to move a high-value cargo, or military supplies that cant be shipped in non-Naval cargo ships, or they need to carry the Plot Coupon so the players have to fight and get it.


not looking for a argument, just pointing out the logic for why I like a decent amount of cargo room on my warships, and more than the bare minimum.
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Last edited by Xerxeskingofking; June 2nd, 2020 at 07:04 AM..
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  #14  
Old June 2nd, 2020, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxeskingofking View Post
nice, only critique I have is the lack of cargo space for supplies. for a independent patrol ship, I'd prefer more room to carry spare parts in. I normally aim off for about 10% displacement for cargo room for this reason, and I didn't quite manage that with this design.

but hey, I don't have the CT rules to build it in CT, nor would I understand the meta to make a decent one if I did.
If you mean the meta about the universe of the 3rd Imperium, then it's almost entirely the same for CT and MGT.
The main differences are the inclusion of cybernetics, and whatever viewpoint differences might (or not) exist between Mongoose and GDW as publishers who are separated by 40 years.
(I have both versions, so as far as I can tell it's mostly cosmetic.)

As for cargo, back when I was very into Traveller I designed a bunch of ships and left some space over for cargo even in Warships. The crew would not want to be dependent on supply ships for everything, plus there's also a chance of mis- or blind-jumps.
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  #15  
Old June 2nd, 2020, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
As for cargo, back when I was very into Traveller I designed a bunch of ships and left some space over for cargo even in Warships. The crew would not want to be dependent on supply ships for everything, plus there's also a chance of mis- or blind-jumps.
Hard-core high-jump real warships can't really afford any significant cargo space.

Low-end coast guard ships, like the Type T or the Type 23, can afford such luxuries, and I agree that it's a good idea, but perhaps not necessarily as much as 10%.
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Old June 2nd, 2020, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BRJN View Post
I really should use _Interstellar Wars_ to figure out how many man-days of rations you can stuff in a dTon.
Short answer: 2000 person-days occupies 1dt, masses 12tons, costs $12000.

Judging by fuel cost comparison ($350/$80 vs Cr500/Cr100), thats in the ballpark of kCr16, or Cr240/mo, 20% more than "ordinary" subsistence living, and far less than preserved rations (Cr600/mo) or dehydrated rations (Cr750/mo) listed in LBB1.

Both preserved and dehydrated rations are a LOT lighter, so there's more than just food in those supplies -- water, maybe. I'd always assumed air and water were handled in life support supplies and costs.
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Old June 2nd, 2020, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
If you mean the meta about the universe of the 3rd Imperium, then it's almost entirely the same for CT and MGT.
The main differences are the inclusion of cybernetics, and whatever viewpoint differences might (or not) exist between Mongoose and GDW as publishers who are separated by 40 years.
(I have both versions, so as far as I can tell it's mostly cosmetic.)

As for cargo, back when I was very into Traveller I designed a bunch of ships and left some space over for cargo even in Warships. The crew would not want to be dependent on supply ships for everything, plus there's also a chance of mis- or blind-jumps.
i meant the meta of effective ship design, in that don't know the CT construction rules, and what design choices are effective and which are sub-optimal.
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  #18  
Old June 2nd, 2020, 11:12 PM
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left some space over for cargo even in Warships
two months endurance as-built, plus 2 months for each .01 of non-fuel non-armor dtonnage devoted to cargo/supplies.

Quote:
Hard-core high-jump real warships can't really afford any significant cargo space
they're the ones that need it the most. it's not a luxury, it's a necessity.
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  #19  
Old June 3rd, 2020, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
If you mean the meta about the universe of the 3rd Imperium, then it's almost entirely the same for CT and MGT.
The main differences are the inclusion of cybernetics, and whatever viewpoint differences might (or not) exist between Mongoose and GDW as publishers who are separated by 40 years.
(I have both versions, so as far as I can tell it's mostly cosmetic.)

As for cargo, back when I was very into Traveller I designed a bunch of ships and left some space over for cargo even in Warships. The crew would not want to be dependent on supply ships for everything, plus there's also a chance of mis- or blind-jumps.
The big meta difference is whether you're using LBB2 or High Guard for design and/or combat.

For LBB2 combat, armor isn't a thing and maneuver drive rating is mostly for picking range and having the option to break off/pursue -- it's not a defensive DM. On the other hand, maneuver Gs don't cost much (relatively) until they're higher than the Jump rating (2nd Ed.). There is no need for a power plant rated higher than either your Jump or Maneuver Drive. Computers let you run better attack/defense programs, and these are your +/- combat DMs. Once you max out the attack/defense programs, you might not need a bigger computer.

From a design standpoint, the main difference between CT (LBB) and pretty much everything else Traveller is the TL paradigm: Bigger is better, and higher TL lets you build bigger. Everything the same size is pretty much equal, regardless of TL (a TL 15 Type T Patrol Cruiser is the same as one built at TL 10, but you can have a very upgraded computer if you want). The main TL constraint is the maximum available Drive Size (letter), and it's possible to get higher Jn for small ships than in High Guard (or other Traveller rules). The other thing is that Maneuver Drive Gs have the same TL constraints as Jump Number(!)

For HG combat, armor is very much a thing, as is maneuver drive rating. They're both costly in tonnage and MCr. Computers are a +/-DM for all combat, so it's worth getting the biggest one you can afford (or TL allows).
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Old June 3rd, 2020, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by flykiller View Post
two months endurance as-built, plus 2 months for each .01 of non-fuel non-armor dtonnage devoted to cargo/supplies.
House rule?


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Originally Posted by flykiller View Post
they're the ones that need it the most. it's not a luxury, it's a necessity.
If you feel you need massive cargo space, use the fleet train. It is far cheaper to add cargo space in another ship than in tightly packed warships.
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