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Old October 31st, 2014, 12:59 PM
Marchand Marchand is offline
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Default Using advanced chargen skill tables in basic chargen

I like the range of skills brought in by advanced chargen, but I don't like the skill bloat that seems to result.

Tonight I had a brain wave. Why not let players generating basic CT characters roll for skills from advanced chargen tables?

Let's say Sharik Ghan has just enrolled in the Army. Makes survival, then achieves commission and promotion.

Ghan first takes basic training (1 level of Combat Rifleman) and advanced training. As an Army soldier, the player could choose from Artillery, Cavalry, Infantry or Support MOS tables and roll for a skill.

At the Ref's option, the character might then have to stick with the same MOS all the way through chargen; possibly unless s/he re-rolls enlistment, which could allow a switch in MOS.

Ghan then rolls a skill each for commission and promotion. The player might choose the MOS tables; army life; or officer skills (staff or command).

Enlistment, survival, promotion etc. is as per regular CT basic chargen. The only difference is rolling skills from Books 4-7, not from the one-page table in Book 1.

I'm sure I'm not the first to have thought of it...

Edit: it's no help to Other or Supp 4 careers though.
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Old October 31st, 2014, 03:13 PM
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I'd come at this from a different angle. Either change some of the skill results on Basic CharGen to suit your tastes, or create a new table for players to roll upon.

Maybe a Services II Skills Table, or another Advanced Education Table where (EDU 10+ is needed).

If you are careful not to duplicate skills on the new table, then you'll have your breath of skills but no skill bloat.
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Old October 31st, 2014, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marchand View Post
I like the range of skills brought in by advanced chargen, but I don't like the skill bloat that seems to result.

Tonight I had a brain wave. Why not let players generating basic CT characters roll for skills from advanced chargen tables?

Let's say Sharik Ghan has just enrolled in the Army. Makes survival, then achieves commission and promotion.

Ghan first takes basic training (1 level of Combat Rifleman) and advanced training. As an Army soldier, the player could choose from Artillery, Cavalry, Infantry or Support MOS tables and roll for a skill.

At the Ref's option, the character might then have to stick with the same MOS all the way through chargen; possibly unless s/he re-rolls enlistment, which could allow a switch in MOS.

Ghan then rolls a skill each for commission and promotion. The player might choose the MOS tables; army life; or officer skills (staff or command).

Enlistment, survival, promotion etc. is as per regular CT basic chargen. The only difference is rolling skills from Books 4-7, not from the one-page table in Book 1.

I'm sure I'm not the first to have thought of it...

Edit: it's no help to Other or Supp 4 careers though.
One problem I see on it is when some skill tables depend on the assignment received that year (e.g. shipboard skills table for Marines, shore duty table for Navy).

Similar problem happens with officier skills (is you character Staff or Command officer?), NCO skills (well, you character is enlisted, as it has not been commisioned, but what Enlisted Rank does he/she bear?) and the Comando tables (how to know if your character has been transfered to Comandos?).
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Old October 31st, 2014, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Supplement Four View Post
I'd come at this from a different angle. Either change some of the skill results on Basic CharGen to suit your tastes, or create a new table for players to roll upon.

Maybe a Services II Skills Table, or another Advanced Education Table where (EDU 10+ is needed).

If you are careful not to duplicate skills on the new table, then you'll have your breath of skills but no skill bloat.
My response is to let them switch out skills on the rolls for whichever career they have, such as Vacsuit or Demolitions on the military tables or Language on Scout or Scientist.

Though I should make a table for it that says which skills a career gets.
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Old October 31st, 2014, 06:02 PM
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My response is to let them switch out skills on the rolls for whichever career they have, such as Vacsuit or Demolitions on the military tables or Language on Scout or Scientist.
When I do this, I have specific choices to choose from. I don't let the players pick any skill that they want. I think that makes it too easy for characters to get skills levels that are too high.

But, I will do something like, "If you roll X skill, you can have it or trade it in for Y skill."
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Old November 1st, 2014, 04:01 AM
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One problem I see on it is when some skill tables depend on the assignment received that year (e.g. shipboard skills table for Marines, shore duty table for Navy).

Similar problema happens with officier skills (is you character Staff or Command officer?), NCO skills (well, you character is enlisted, as it has not been comisiones, but what Enlisted Rank does he/she bear?) and the Comando tables (how to know if your character has been transfered to Comandos?).
I wouldn't worry about this at all. If the player chooses to roll on Shipboard Life, well, that means they served with ship's troops that term. I don't think it would unbalance things if they could pick between Command or Staff skills either.

Commando skills aren't particularly unbalanced.

The problem with advanced chargen isn't in the types of skills but the number. Specialist schools offering a chance of lots of skills on a 4+, in particular. In Merchant Prince, the extra roll per promotion and up to 4 promotions a term also bulks up skills received to an unbalanced level. Look at Theo Genisand, the example character. He comes out of a single term with 9 skill levels.

You could use terms served as NCO rank for non-commissioned.
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Old November 1st, 2014, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Marchand View Post
The problem with advanced chargen isn't in the types of skills but the number. Specialist schools offering a chance of lots of skills on a 4+, in particular. In Merchant Prince, the extra roll per promotion and up to 4 promotions a term also bulks up skills received to an unbalanced level. Look at Theo Genisand, the example character. He comes out of a single term with 9 skill levels.
I have often suspected, but haven't investigated, that the reason Basic and Advanced Chargen doesn't work are the schools.

I bet if these were altered or limited in some way--maybe only one skill is permitted in a specialist school--then Advanced and Basic characters could be used, side-by-side.

I think the idea would be to make Advanced more like Basic (and not the other way around, the way MT did by adding the extra skill throw). Reason: There are a heck of a lot more Basic Careers in CT, in supplements, in magazines, than there are Advanced Careers. It would easier to change the few Advanced ones.
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Old November 2nd, 2014, 12:11 AM
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When I use the Advanced Chargen rules to create Basic Characters, I roll as many skills as the advanced rules warrant in each 4 year term.
These are the skills that you are exposed to in that term.
Pick two to keep at skill-1 (or +1 if improving a skill) and change the others to skill-0.
You learn two skills per term and are 'familiar' with some others.
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Old November 2nd, 2014, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
When I use the Advanced Chargen rules to create Basic Characters, I roll as many skills as the advanced rules warrant in each 4 year term.
These are the skills that you are exposed to in that term.
Pick two to keep at skill-1 (or +1 if improving a skill) and change the others to skill-0.
You learn two skills per term and are 'familiar' with some others.
That's actually a pretty cool house rule.

I may steal that, or a version of it, sometime.
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Old November 2nd, 2014, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marchand View Post
I like the range of skills brought in by advanced chargen, but I don't like the skill bloat that seems to result.
What do you mean by skill bloat? What's too many skills? Are all science disciplines meant to come under "Science" or should that be a cascade? How do you group disciplines together? Why would J-Drive and M-Drive mechanical mastery have it's own skill while all other engineering fields not even rate a mention?
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