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In the OTU In the Official Traveller Universe. Any milieux that's been published in any edition. Not for discussion of rules except in reference to how they reflect the OTU

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  #11  
Old August 9th, 2018, 03:21 PM
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I was thinking of something along the lines of a knight automatically qualifying for Traveller's membership and being treated a bit like a detached duty scout - free room and board at any Imperial base, deadheading on scoutships and IN ships.

But.

Any Imperial officer can 'request' their service, as can any higher tier Imperial noble or Imperial Ministry
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Old August 9th, 2018, 05:44 PM
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Interesting. Historically a retainer was a man at arms, but his role evolved as did the knights.
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Old August 9th, 2018, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
I was thinking of something along the lines of a knight automatically qualifying for Traveller's membership and being treated a bit like a detached duty scout - free room and board at any Imperial base, deadheading on scoutships and IN ships.
There was an article in one of the various magazines back in the CT days about noble privilege. Since the types Traveller has now weren't in place yet, the article instead had a table of random benefits. One of those was Right of Passage, by which a noble could demand, and in most cases expect to get, passage on in-service ships of the Navy or Scouts. It did mention that abuse was not wise, as eventually the Navy would take steps to not be where you were, or come up with the right reasons to deny you.

TAS is a separate organization in Canon, with no formal connection to the Nobility. That's not to say you couldn't have membership paid for by prior service, but even the nobility will sometimes fail the blacklist check...
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Old August 10th, 2018, 12:03 AM
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Interesting. Historically a retainer was a man at arms, but his role evolved as did the knights.
I will admit to using a fair amount of Dune's implied and implicit social structures in *my* thinking*, so even though Gurney Halleck or poor put-upon Duncan Idaho were not stated to be Knights (since Dune didn't use the title, IIRC), in practice, they operated with the explicit approval and direction of Leto and had Ducal authority behind them if they needed it, but were just another body as far as any other household was concerned. They fit the idea of the Knight Retainer comfortably.

Knights Retainer do not rule out the existence of "just" Retainers, either.
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Old August 10th, 2018, 01:48 AM
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Wouldn't it be fun if an Imperial knight was/is a 'man on the ground' or troubleshooter for the subsector duke...
Given that the local knights are beheld to the Archdukes and/or the Emperor for their titles, not the sector nor subsector dukes, it's a tenuous political move... the promise of being suggested for a knighthood is a lure to service, but once it's granted, the grantor is the AD or the Emperor, and the local recommending noble has little authority.

Do you really want your best troubleshooter answering to the Archduke instead of you?
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Old August 10th, 2018, 04:21 AM
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Do you really want your best troubleshooter answering to the Archduke instead of you?
Depends on how you feel about the Archduke, and vice versa, but I could see Knights working within the local power structure when that works, and dispatching straight to the Domain capital when it doesn't. Knights are largely outside the peerage structure for reasons that those peers occasionally forget...
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Old August 10th, 2018, 04:44 AM
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Given that the local knights are beheld to the Archdukes and/or the Emperor for their titles, not the sector nor subsector dukes, it's a tenuous political move... the promise of being suggested for a knighthood is a lure to service, but once it's granted, the grantor is the AD or the Emperor, and the local recommending noble has little authority.

Do you really want your best troubleshooter answering to the Archduke instead of you?
That's why you have them answerable to any Imperial noble that outranks them, every Imperial military officer regardless of rank and every Ministry officer equivalent.

Unless Marc has rectoconned it the archdukes are pretty powerless in 1105, while subsector dukes in frontier sectors have to make a lot more difficult decisions in the Emperor's name, and there is no formal sector duke rank.
As to subsector dukes conferring knighthood, they grant it in their status as Emperor on the spot, the knight is in the Imperium's service, but it is the local duke that has to fill in the forms and hand over the new id card.

My idea is mainly to provide plot hook and scenario intros. If a group in their free trader happens to have Sir Donder in their midst so what?
What about if at any port of call there may be an Ministry official who needs a job doing, as a knight Sir Donder is duty bound to get involved.
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Old August 10th, 2018, 04:45 AM
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Depends on how you feel about the Archduke, and vice versa, but I could see Knights working within the local power structure when that works, and dispatching straight to the Domain capital when it doesn't. Knights are largely outside the peerage structure for reasons that those peers occasionally forget...
Exactly. the knights become the odd job men...
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Old August 10th, 2018, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyComet View Post
I will admit to using a fair amount of Dune's implied and implicit social structures in *my* thinking*, so even though Gurney Halleck or poor put-upon Duncan Idaho were not stated to be Knights (since Dune didn't use the title, IIRC), in practice, they operated with the explicit approval and direction of Leto and had Ducal authority behind them if they needed it, but were just another body as far as any other household was concerned. They fit the idea of the Knight Retainer comfortably.

Knights Retainer do not rule out the existence of "just" Retainers, either.
Dune aside, historically the knight was the local law, or a facet of it. Everyone was expected to enforce it pre-law-enforcement-agency days, but the knight was empowered to "the right to bear arms and the powers to meet justice", to quote / paraphrase from Boorman's "Excalibur".

A knight could make a knight in days of yore. That's how your increased your army strength … bring your knights and their squires, see the enemy army out number you, knight your squires, result; instant win (hopefully).

I'm not saying I'm against the OTU's stance on knighthood, but if the knight is a social or bureaucratic functionary, then, to me at least, that takes away some potential intrigue or adventure material. Then again, it is the Imperium and not medieval Europe, so …

I dunno. I'm just curious about it. YTU and YMMV and all that.
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  #20  
Old August 10th, 2018, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Blue Ghost View Post
I'm not saying I'm against the OTU's stance on knighthood, but if the knight is a social or bureaucratic functionary, then, to me at least, that takes away some potential intrigue or adventure material. Then again, it is the Imperium and not medieval Europe, so …
The OTU owes a lot more to the victorian era nobility than to the medieval - and from the renaissance on, pretty much only the crown gets to dub knights.

And knights are often functionaries and bureaucrats from the victorian onward, and in England before, QV, heck, before King Henry VIII even, many government bureaucrats were knights, and many knights were hereditary peers, not actual combat-trained men.

Traveller owes far more to the age of sail, which really is 1650-1850...
... knighthoods for bureaucrats and war heroes, titles hereditary but without rulership, a voting peerage...
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Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
Marquis of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2410)
Baron of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2231)
Knight of the Iridium Throne (CORE 1434)
Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
Knight of Deneb (Spin 2532)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
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