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  #1  
Old May 18th, 2009, 12:15 AM
Allensh Allensh is offline
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Default Grognardia

This is a very interesting blog post that has some thigs to say about Traveller (and Mongoose Traveller in particular, later on) that I found quite thought-provoking.

http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2009/...lling-man.html

Allen
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Old May 18th, 2009, 02:10 AM
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Quote:
worst of all, GDW's example setting, the Third Imperium, ceased to be an example and become what Traveller was all about.

Talk to almost any fan of Traveller and chances are they'll eventually start blathering on about the minutiae of the Third Imperium setting.
<snip>
Back in the day, I created my own setting for my Traveller campaigns and, to my mind, that's how Traveller ought to be played; that's where the heart and soul of Marc Miller's brilliant creation lie.
This was (is) pretty much my take on Traveller, too. I have a suspicion that Mongoose will take Traveller in the opposite direction (back to its roots, I'd argue) with the OTU/Third Imperium being the focus for most rules-examples early on, but gradually relinquishing centre-stage as other settings come online.
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Old May 18th, 2009, 03:28 AM
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The OTU was coming to dominate the traveller line by 1979... and by 1981, it was a fixture.
1977-1979 "generic" traveller... 2 years
1979-1981 Nascent OTU CT starting to form... 2 years
1981-1987 OTU oriented CT... 6 years
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Old May 20th, 2009, 06:48 AM
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Nice article. Thanks.
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Old May 21st, 2009, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
The OTU was coming to dominate the traveller line by 1979... and by 1981, it was a fixture.
1977-1979 "generic" traveller... 2 years
1979-1981 Nascent OTU CT starting to form... 2 years
1981-1987 OTU oriented CT... 6 years
I don't recall it being treated as a fixture by players--some players--until about 1983. This is based on limited experience, playing in groups in the SF Bay area, LA area, and California central coast area on a semi-regular basis at the time. The OTU was there, and it may have come to dominate the published materials, but the games being played lagged behind this with respect to their OTU-ness. It was usually the newer refs who went with the OTU, though one established campaign I played in shifted in that direction as we moved from one part of the galaxy to another while dodging the Law.

*shrug*

I think the dividing lines may appear to look clearer when looking backward than they actually were among the gamers at the time.

I didn't encounter the OTU being presented as The OTU until 1987 or so. The reference made was so confusing to me WRT Traveller I assumed the person was talking about some other game or a redux under different ownership, like RQIII.
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Old May 21st, 2009, 03:39 AM
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I started Traveller in '83. No one around here was doing anything BUT the OTU, and all the books were clearly OTU aimed. I never heard of anything prior to the '81 version of the rules until 1996...

And while prior to '81, the rules were not OTU fixated, the '81 edition sure was. As was TTB, and Starter. And everyone I knew of had '81 rules or later.

The grogs I've known in Anchorage playing primarily non-OTU, all of them also have pre-81 editions of the rules.
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Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
Marquis of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2410)
Baron of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2231)
Knight of the Iridium Throne (CORE 1434)
Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
Knight of Deneb (Spin 2532)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
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  #7  
Old May 21st, 2009, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saundby View Post
I think the dividing lines may appear to look clearer when looking backward than they actually were among the gamers at the time.

Saundby,

All dividing lines are clearer in retrospect.


Regards,
Bill
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Old May 21st, 2009, 11:28 AM
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The guy really encapsulates why I love Classic Traveller (and I suspect why folks like Supp Four and Whipsnade like it as well):

...I think it's key to understanding Traveller's lasting appeal, not just for me, but for many older gamers, who fell in love with this masterpiece of rules elegance and concision.


Say what you will about CT -- but it is a lean and elegant ruleset.

This is especially obvious in this day and age of "rules bloat" IMHO.

LBB1-8 are the equivalent of about 200 letter sized pages, yet contain far more *stuff* -- most of it actually useful -- than any comparable game I've seen in the last few decades. And as I get older and less patient, I appreciate that more and more. CT's sparseness is a virtue in another way -- the mechanics are obvious and easy to analyze. And for the most part, they work well. Oh sure, the combat system (for instance) is dated. But it still *works* -- and it defined state of the art in 1977. And with a very simple play aid, combat flies at lightning speed. It flies pretty fast without it, actually.

So I just love it.
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Old May 24th, 2009, 08:43 AM
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BING!

"Sadly, Traveller very quickly came to be dominated, both at GDW and among its fanbase, by folks who wanted to do just that: make sense of it all."

That's the sound of the hammer squarely hitting the nail on the head!

I'll be passing this one along to my gamer friends.
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Old May 24th, 2009, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
And with a very simple play aid, combat flies at lightning speed. It flies pretty fast without it, actually.

So I just love it.
I love it too... Did anybody know that? That I love CT? I was just wonderin'. Maybe I haven't been vocal enough about it...that I love Classic Traveller.

I so love Classic Traveller.

I really do.

Yeah, that's me, the Classic Traveller fan.

I'm right here! Hey! Somebody throw a tarp over me!

Gimmie a "T". Gimmie a "R". Gimmie a "AVELLER". What's that spell? C'mon now, you know. TRAVELLER!

TRAVELLER!

TRAVELLER!

Yeah, baby. Music to my ears.

I'm a Traveller. On a space tramp I ride. I'm wanted: Dead or Alive.

Dead or Alive.

Dead or Alive.

Dead or Alive.









BUT....

What I really posted to say was that I get confused when people refer to Classic Traveller combat as "old school", saying that you have to look up charts.

It aint' like that, folks.

Sure, there are charts. But, they're there for your convience. Just about every rpg has stats for weapons, yes?

MGT has stats for damage and recoil. In many editions of Traveller, there are various modifiers for weapon range. MT has plenty of stats, as for penetration and such.

All CT does is put these stats on a chart rather than bury them in the weapon description.

It's no different.

There is no chart looking during a game.

Just like you would in any other rpg, you write down the weapon's stats on your PC equipment page. Story over. There's the stats for that weapon.

There's nothing archaic about it. Most rpg's today ("modern" rpgs, if you will, although I fail to see how different they are from when the hobby first started) do that same thing. If anything, CT is advanced in that it puts all the weapon stats on a chart rather than making you dig through weapon description (yeah, I know, many rpgs do the same....before someone like Aramis misses the point completely and starts going on and on about how many rpgs have weapon charts).

So...

In CT. When it's time for your character to act. And, you want to run across the corridor and then fire off a blast of your shotgun just as you get to the other wall...all you do....as in most rpgs...is look down at your character's weapon sheet and use the DMs you've jotted down.

Just like most rpgs you've ever played.

Why Classic Traveller has this stigma that it's like old AD&D where a chart looking is needed for combat, I don't know.
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