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  #131  
Old September 7th, 2008, 07:11 PM
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Well, I stand corrected. It would seem that some folks do want some versions of Traveller to fail, and therefore, in a way, kind of are making Traveller fail.

I am sure they mean well, and want to stay true to whatever past version or incarnation of the game is "thiers" but I think this fosters a stultifying close-mindedness, or maybe a full on snobbery of another version. Maybe they do mean well, but I am really having a lot of trouble seeing that.

Is it a "nerd" thing? A "dork" thing? Popular culture will lead you to believe that it is, but right now, I am seeing it as a "Negative Publicity" thing, and it really sucks. At least to me it does.
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  #132  
Old September 7th, 2008, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Baron Saarthuran View Post
Well, I stand corrected. It would seem that some folks do want some versions of Traveller to fail, and therefore, in a way, kind of are making Traveller fail.
Many just want a good version of Traveller to be published. Not a servicable one. Not an "OK" version. They want a dynamite version of Traveller to be published that captures the magic that Classic Traveller did way back when it was just called Traveller.

Mongoose Traveller, despite promises and expectations, does not do that.

Quote:
I am sure they mean well, and want to stay true to whatever past version or incarnation of the game is "thiers" but I think this fosters a stultifying close-mindedness, or maybe a full on snobbery of another version. Maybe they do mean well, but I am really having a lot of trouble seeing that.
And, maybe some just don't like Mongoose's version of Traveller.

You see some negativity towards it because not everyone likes what Mongoose has done with the game.

Do you expect people, who generally love Traveller, who find a new version lacking not to complain about it? These people are let down. They love Traveller, had high hopes for a new edition, and what are they rewarded with? Mediocre core rule book, silly 760 Patrons, and blah Mercenary.

The game is not universally liked, especially by a lot of the crowd who have been in love with Traveller for decades.

I mean, it's a bit unrealistic to see someone say, "Hey! I read the new Mongoose Traveller! And, it sucks! Isn't that great! I hate it! I ain't gonna change from Classic Traveller, but I was tempted by all the hype and promises Mongoose made before the game was released. Wooo-hooo! I don't like this game, but, by the gods, I sure hope they keep publishing crap that doesn't interest me! I really do!"

When people care about something and see that something being mishandled, it's fair to say that they will gribe about it in the negative.



It wouldn't surprise me, now, after seeing the direction that Mongoose is taking Traveller, that we see phasers and small, hand held laser weapons in Traveller, jacked in cybernetically, sans triggers, to a character's head, so that his thoughts and his nano-enhanced INT and EDU scores give him modifiers to hit. All this, traveling in a starship that uses warp drive, mounts a matter transporter, fueled by anti-matter.

That's not Traveller. That's Star Trek. But, it seems that Mongoose is taking Traveller in these very non-traditional avenues.

And, many of the people who've loved Traveller for decades are none too happy about Mongoose breaking the Traveller universe.
  #133  
Old September 7th, 2008, 08:53 PM
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I see. So what part of the "Traveller Universe" am I to consider as being "fixed", if I were to come at it from the perspective of a new consumer?

What clear, precise, and direct information has been provided directly to potential new players in a mass-market sense? In a selling a game sense?

I have heard that you are some kind of CT purist, and in that, we should have several things in common. I can remember a time where I would buy a chunk of driftwood if it had the Sunburst on it. Every game effort I work up I has some aspect of CT in mind. It is a Classic.

I can also remember a time where I stopped buying Traveller stuff, because I hated the format, the overcomplicated rules, the concrete background, the rehashed (and kind of snoozy) artwork, and the change I poercieved in the tone. The addition of "grit" I thought. A lot of people I guess (I had no way of knowing, there was no internet or anything) thought that the CT background was "boring" or something, so all of these other writers of course had better ideas.

I literally said to my gaming group, "You know the gaming biz is taking a hit right alongside comics when even Traveller is starting to suck." And then we called it a day.

Then ad nauseum. It turns out that every time some new company comes out with a version, they for some reason have to "reimagine" background elements, instead of concentrating on the idea of the "Universe" has a cohesive background.

This may be why Traveller has got respect, but no players. Who the hell outside of this community could objectively sit and figure this crap out, or would want to? This community would do well to get realistic about the game industry as it is today. Time spent on Role Playing Games has competition from many other sources.

You guys act like I'm trying to keep you from speaking your mind, when actually, I am asking that you extend the nomal courtesy that you would to anyone else that was working on a product with the Traveller name on it.
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  #134  
Old September 7th, 2008, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Saarthuran View Post
I see. So what part of the "Traveller Universe" am I to consider as being "fixed", if I were to come at it from the perspective of a new consumer?
Hm...where to start...

I think the several threads addressing problems with MGT will do for starters. No need to recall them all here.

Quote:
I have heard that you are some kind of CT purist, and in that, we should have several things in common.
I've been all over with Traveller and came back to the basics. Yep. Pure CT is the way to go, imo.

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I can remember a time where I would buy a chunk of driftwood if it had the Sunburst on it.
That's actually pretty funny!

I remember being that way. That was before THE BIG DISAPPOINTMENT, the first of several: TNE, GT, T4, T20, THero, MGT. All of them taking Traveller away from where it should have never strayed.

How much do players and rpg buyers care about rule sets and not just background material? Some care A LOT. I'm one of them.

MT, at least, is recognizeable as "CT Third edition".



Quote:
I can also remember a time where I stopped buying Traveller stuff, because I hated the format, the overcomplicated rules, the concrete background, the rehashed (and kind of snoozy) artwork, and the change I poercieved in the tone.
Was that around the time of TNE?



Quote:
You guys act like I'm trying to keep you from speaking your mind, when actually, I am asking that you extend the nomal courtesy that you would to anyone else that was working on a product with the Traveller name on it.
Just don't like the game. I don't down it more than I "up" things I like. This is an opinion forum.

It does seem as if we who do not like what Mongoose is doing with Traveller are victim of reverse censorship (attempted censorship). I mean, I'm sure everything would be hunky-dorey if we all posted nothing but nice things about MGT.

I'll also point out that, being a CT pureist, as you call me, I don't go crying every time someone states that CT is an "old man's game sorely in need of updating" and that "its broken" and what not. Talk to EDG on the Mongoose forum. He'll tell ya how crappy CT is.

Yet, I'm not posting everytime he says something negative about CT, saying, "But, you're wrong! Why can't you just say something nice? Buy the book, then give me your opinion!"
  #135  
Old September 8th, 2008, 10:27 AM
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It was actually the release of MT. I despised:

1. the Rebellion setting: I thought it was too much "grit" of the same lame sort of "grit" that Star Trek used to "beef" up flagging interest in Deep Space Nine with the Dominion War. The Rebellion didnt make much sense,
and talk about wrecking the OTU!

2. the three book design with the foil cover was very of its time, ala "Special 4-part Iron Man Collectors Covers" that wrecked the comics industry in the early 90s,

3. The god awful, overcomplicated, written totally for gearheads and inaccessable vehicle and ship design system, expanded character creation, mandatory extended star system generation, etc, etc. etc.
All of my players got royally pissed when we switched because to make new characters took hours, and it took me weeks to cook up stuff.
(As a CT purist myself, I refused to even use the Adventures, saving those for Special Events )

4. The worst result of this was that it soured them to Traveller in general, and it was soon pulled from our rotation. There were other Sci Fi games out that didnt require less commitment for them as casual players. They were not Traveller Nuts like I was, but that is ok.

See? Everyone has an opinion. Let's just say its the "creative reiteration" of the opinions that is becoming a problem, and I think you know that.

I gave a completely objective review of my purchase of the t20 book, and it was less than glowing, and then I stopped my reviewing, because I realized that I was being a dick. Even tho t20 had problems, it was still a Traveller book, and one that people put a lot of effort into, out of love of the game. Who am I to crap on that? Having to put up with this kind of crap must drive these dudes nuts. There is criticism, and then there is "sandbagging".

Maybe it comes down to you should think about buying the book anyway, you never know. The investment now could help finance the release of your CT brain implant, like I'm going to get.

Smile and wave until a Traveller Movie comes out, then we'll critique until our eyeballs fall out. The Traveller Universe is going to need people in it that play it to keep going, no matter what rule system they are using. How else are the new players going to discover thier roots? Searching for threads? I do not think so...
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  #136  
Old September 8th, 2008, 10:55 AM
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This is going nowhere. Thread locked.
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