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The Fleet Ship designs, strategies, and tactics.

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Old September 9th, 2007, 02:36 PM
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Default (MT) 2000 ton frontier transport?

hello all,

digging though my MT stuff, i found a copy of "the rebellion sourcebook." inside is the frontier transport that came in two versions.

TI, jump 2 ("overt")
TJ, jump 6 ("covert")

anyone recall ever seeing deckplans for either version? maybe that could be my fall semester distraction. . . .
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Old September 9th, 2007, 02:57 PM
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http://members.aol.com/gypsycomet/TJOver.html
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Old September 9th, 2007, 03:13 PM
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thanks! i think i may roll up my sleeves and put my own take on it anyway. the size of the spaces seems odd, but then again i'm sure it must use a lot of fuel. hmm.

edit: looking at those stats--almost half its tonnage in fuel, whoa. those spaces make a bit more sense, now
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Old September 13th, 2007, 03:30 AM
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Yup. The implications of making both variants "casually indistingishable" are also why I haven't done the TI, though it probably starts with turning the rest of Deck 3 into small cargo spaces (that way you get to keep the corridor) and carving cargo bays out of Decks 4 and 5. The trick is to be able to present a "sealed delivery" manifest for "the next world" whenever some Customs type asks about Bay 4...
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Old September 13th, 2007, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by GypsyComet View Post
Yup. The implications of making both variants "casually indistingishable" are also why I haven't done the TI, though it probably starts with turning the rest of Deck 3 into small cargo spaces (that way you get to keep the corridor) and carving cargo bays out of Decks 4 and 5. The trick is to be able to present a "sealed delivery" manifest for "the next world" whenever some Customs type asks about Bay 4...
Yep, I worked a bit on deckplans way back in prep for running the "for want of a nail" adventure. Never finished them or got to run the game.

My take on it was to make the extra fuel containerized and appear as simple cargo, even to being able to unload and load "cargo" in a good approximation of the usual TI volume. The engineering differences were harder to justify as casually indistinguishable. I was working around it by making the TI low tech and being able to put more performance into the same space on the TJ by being high tech.
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Old September 13th, 2007, 09:45 AM
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Yep, I worked a bit on deckplans way back in prep for running the "for want of a nail" adventure. Never finished them or got to run the game.

My take on it was to make the extra fuel containerized and appear as simple cargo, even to being able to unload and load "cargo" in a good approximation of the usual TI volume. The engineering differences were harder to justify as casually indistinguishable. I was working around it by making the TI low tech and being able to put more performance into the same space on the TJ by being high tech.
I had something I called a 'Cargo Tank' that I designed for the New Era. The idea was to give J-1 merchants in the RC the capability to make J-2 jumps to the small mains that comprised much of the RC area.

Canon seemed to indicate that collapsible tanks were risky, so I 'designed' a cargo bay modification that added insulation, collapsible baffles, pumps and filters to the bay. You could convert all of a cargo bay, or just divide it and convert one section. Once you were at your target main you could use all of your cargo capacity (sans that required by the 'cargo tank' mods) and operate as normal.

I don't think it would be too hard to do something like this for a ship in the Emperor's service. Once insystem the drained tanks can have some cargo moved to them to achieve a look of normalcy.

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Old September 13th, 2007, 07:11 PM
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I've taken to designing cargo bays that can be subdivided into cargo tanks, using bulkheads that slide up from between layers of existing manouvre fuel. This way if you get a Fuelor Cargo strike on your starship combat result, your ship doesn't fireball.
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Old September 13th, 2007, 07:42 PM
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Canon seemed to indicate that collapsible tanks were risky, so I 'designed' a cargo bay modification that added insulation, collapsible baffles, pumps and filters to the bay. You could convert all of a cargo bay, or just divide it and convert one section. Once you were at your target main you could use all of your cargo capacity (sans that required by the 'cargo tank' mods) and operate as normal.
getting into this a bit over on the Gurps BBS, GURPS Far Trader has collapsible tanks but mentions that high G maneuvers (1.5+) tend to cause the tanks to rupture. of course GT mentions that most artificial gravity systems screens out up to 3Gs at TTL13 and 6Gs at TTL15, so it's confusing.

I think they also offer a container that holds liquid that could be used as a temporary tank, but of course isn't collapsible.

From what I've read in the Traveller Adventure when a J-1 ship wants to J-2 (via the breakout points) it does the first jump, then goes thru maintenance then moves the fuel into the tanks for the next leg, which can take several hours.
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Old September 14th, 2007, 08:13 AM
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Since cutter modules can be used as fuel tanks to directly feed the J-Drive (The Modular J-Ships for Classic and GT do it) one can safely assume that any rugged enough container can. Normally one would want to build the containers rather large so that 1 Container/Jump is the norm for ease of mounting and efficient operations

But the Typ TJ does not have to be efficient, it must be abel to pass a casual inspection. And since it is an Imperial Spyship one can also assume it has the necessary gear to change manifests, fake transponders etc. as well as a crack crew(1). And they are described as "working the backwaters, posing as slow tramps"

So the cargo in the "fuel holds" is always labeled "shipped to next planet after this one" and never needs to be unloaded, allowing the fake containers to be rather sturdy. Add in multiple but equal-sized holds, each build to fuel-tank standards (done on the TI just as well, claim "ease of building was more important than price") and you have your fire protection.

The fake cargo will be made to look like 40ft/8dton standard containers stacked neatly (Imperialines is a small line so "We keep ourselfs to better standards than the average tramp") and you might even get away with making most of the container block "one large piece"

The idea of different TL's also has merrit, even more if used with the article on "Additional parts for spaceships" in MTJournal 3 that includes such nice stuff as a pop-up turret. Using a more compact drive and/or reactor allows you to hide stuff within the reactor housing.

And since this is a "build from the keel-up" spyship rather than a "I made some modifications myself" Han Solo field-upgrade, the camouflage should be high-quality.


(1) These are the Emperors own after all. Most likely the first four ships where named Artos, Aramis, Portos and d'Artagnan
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Old October 1st, 2007, 02:30 AM
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Starviking: your "Cargo Tank" is a demountable tank. It's canonical; see The Traveller adventure, chapter entitled "In Search of Longer Legs"...
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