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Pre-Release Discussion Archive of the pre-release T5 Public

 
 
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  #1  
Old March 27th, 2003, 09:26 AM
Dynamo Dynamo is offline
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Ok, Marks had the rules for playtest availible for how long? why dont we just pool together and write T5, even if was just for us and never sells a book it'd be worth doing.
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Old March 27th, 2003, 09:43 AM
Gallowglass Gallowglass is offline
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Lets be honest: with a little organisational ingenuity and a clear definintion of roles, responsibilities and controls, we (as in the traveller community here at CoTI) could write it AND sell it (in PDF) via QLI\RPGNow very easily... IF that's the model MWM wants to work to and he was prepared to give permission. It may be more sensible than holding out for a licensee to step forward, and could be funded in so far as it would require funding by fan subscription (a suggestion I made in another T5 thread). But it's MWM's call.
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Old March 27th, 2003, 09:48 AM
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Ok, ok I know it really isn't that simple... but I guess whats frustrating is that I see a few creative people who appear to be advancing the cause of T5 (that beautiful binder set of LBBS for example) and others who are just looking to pick nits.

We should be discussing the mission statement of T5 and asnwering the questions below.
1. Why do we need T5?
2. When do we want it?
3. Is there enough fan base to support 3 traveller games?
4.How do we build on Traveller without overly complicating it?
6. What does Marc want?

Obviously setting T5 in a specific Milieu wont satisfy anyone, mainly because no one plays Vanilla Traveller, so lets just give it a general setting, address the prior settings of the game and worry about specifics later. Marc has a good system lined up, so lets build on it and make it into a full fledged game.
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Old March 27th, 2003, 09:50 AM
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The Citizens of the Imperium are well mannered, organized and for the most part highly experienced roleplayers. Many are also professionals so I dont see why this book cant be done as a labor of love.
  #5  
Old March 27th, 2003, 09:53 AM
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Quite frankly, I don't have a good feeling about projects handled by comitees. Also, there are too many house rules available already. The inumerous contradictory views would be a hell to mesh. Therefore, a project such as this would have to be coordinated by MWM or another editor apointed by him. The editor would have so much work that it would probably better to let one author, or a small team of authors to take care of it.

Some chapters of T4, such as starship design was written by a colaborator. As such, it is not unlikely that Mr. Miller will invite other designers to handle specific parts of the T5 project.

Finally, we shouldn't propose projects such as this, as it is MWM call, not ours.
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Old March 27th, 2003, 12:52 PM
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Balderdash,do you know how many RPG books are created by collaborations? T4's flaw was editing, not seperate parties contributing information. In fact had the starship information been complete (an omission of the editors) the game would have been pretty good.
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Old March 28th, 2003, 06:49 AM
Gallowglass Gallowglass is offline
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A Camel is a horse designed by a committee!

Seriously, whilst segmenting a large project (of any sort) to allow parrallel development can be very efficient, keeping things in step and ensuring all parts cohere into a single whole (that matches the original requirements!) can be a real challenge and (all the project management jargon in the world aside) a tight focal group with ultimate "go/No-Go" approval and control as custodians of the vision is I think essential. My personal bias would be for a group of three as it allows for debate, but not deadlock, and is sufficiently small to avoid interminable discussion.

BUT this is all irrelevant unless MWM is interested in doing T5 this way. On the whole, I think MWM selecting a small core team (from here or elsewhere) to develop subsystems under his oversight, which are then pushed out to a _controlled_ playtest (simlar to QLI's T20) and leading to a PDF or POD version is emminently workable and appealing in the current financial climate and given teh nature of the Traveller market and the wider RPG market. But it's not my decision and I'm certainly not in possession or hard data (T20 sales, FFE reprint sales, SJG GT sales, actual production costs etc) on which MWM will have to make that decision.

But boy am I curious as to what he will eventually decide to do!
  #8  
Old June 26th, 2003, 11:47 AM
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I believe there's a Middle Path.

Treat the process like a gaming session. There's one referee: the guy who calls the shots and can create, read, update, or delete anything and everything. Marc Miller.

Then there's the player group.

I believe the Middle Path consists of a group of Traveller players who coordinate their efforts and submit their 'moves' to the referee via an elected spokesperson.

The spokesperson, in this case, will have to have editing power over the body of work -- the ability to say "fix it better" with minimal bias, and yet to appropriately take feedback. That's why an election is important. And an election implies a smallish, exclusive group, otherwise how can it organize?

Do you really want to do this? It requires a sense of humor, maturity, humility, compromise and the risk of total rejection by Mr. Miller. In other words, the work has to drive you beyond yourself. I'm not sure if I can do that, but I'd like to try.
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  #9  
Old June 26th, 2003, 03:57 PM
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Ganidirsii O'Flynn Ganidirsii O'Flynn is offline
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Comes to the end of it gents, T20, which I play and like, is still just a variant set of rules, just like G:T, which I don't play. The Traveller Problem is twofold:

Firstly, the "official" sets of Traveller rules are a mess. CT has been modified, adjusted, tweaked, spun, and redone to the extent that, even with reprinted material, a referee needs to have 4-5 books open at any given time. Megatraveller was confusing in several basic areas (like combat). Most of us cherry-picked it for good ideas and generally stayed with CT, so no help there. TNE was, well, TNE. Editing was a problem, the art was not really up to snuff, and the setting was, by and large, a turn-off. T4 had editing issues, was poorly organized and presented, and the art was still awful.

Secondly, most of the Traveller buying public are, well, old farts like me. We remember the great early days of Traveller and how much fun it was. This gets FFE printing reprints, but not much new stuff. If Mr. Sanger were to open up with the DGP licensed stuff, we'd all snap that up too, out of auld lang syne. To put it another way, game design has come a long, long way since the "Little Brown Books" of D&D fame. While everyone else has moved along, we're still reminiscing about "White Plume Mountain" and our characters are still in Hommlet waiting for the Temple of Elemental Evil to make a move. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I submit that under these conditions, a T5 IS needed.

So, for these two very important reasons, we need a T5 with, get this, ERA SOURCEBOOKS. Once the main rules are published, we could then get collaborators onboard supporting the different eras, with Mr. Miller acting as the continuity nazi/mavin/authority. This is one area that the Star Wars and Babylon 5 milieus were always far more consistent with than the Star Trek milieu.

Whatever comes out for T5, I would suggest several features to attract the expanded audience we need:

a) A slick, appealing overall presentation;
b) Consistent color and b/w line art, and lots of it;
c) Game mechanics that allow for the full range of character actions, from cinematic to tactical;
d) Character generation that gets the player involved with his character from the start. Make the character more than a set of numbers;
e) Include EVERYTHING you need to run an adventure in the basic set. Animals, opponents, starship deckplans for at least two ships characters might muster out with, and so on should be included;
f) Include two adventures: one a solo adventure that teaches players the mechanics, the other a full length adventure for a party of four to six, one that is fairly non-specific in era.

I might add that these last two points could be set on one world that has been detailed on the Imperial Fringe somewhere. I would suggest a world with the background of similar to Tarsus/Dist 268 for those two adventures.

As an aside, head out to your used book store that carries used games. Look of a Star Wars RPG hardback from West End Games called "Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game, Revised and Expanded". This and the "RuneQuest, 3rd edition" books are two examples of what I'm talking about, presentation-wise.

To sum up, yeah, I really do think we need a new Traveller from FFE. I really like the guys at QLI, and I like the work that SJG is doing in support of G:T, but we all want a new, official Traveller. Traveller needs a new audience who will love it like we do. And whatever comes out, I'll undoubtedly still buy it. I'm still a fan .
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  #10  
Old June 26th, 2003, 04:38 PM
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Hey Mr. O'Flynn, have you checked out the various musings and wishings posted on traveller5.com? (I hope you don't mind: I pasted the wishlist from your last post into the "What I'd like to see in T5" thread on traveller5.com).
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