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Old November 9th, 2008, 09:07 AM
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Default New Twilight 2013- a review in progress.

I got my pdf of 2013 yesterday and to be honest I wasn't sure about ordering. I'll start with some of my reservations since by mentioning these I can say how pleasantly surprised I've been overall.

Firstly I thought that 2013 was too close a year for a setting (and I still believe this but it hasn't caused me any issues). I was also worried by hints from the forum about the background. There was a lot of demonising going on, from Muslims to the French and although the French ARE the bad guys that start throwing nukes around and Islamic countries and terrorists are responsible for a lot of the badness it isn't portrayed in a way that might cause offence, in fact it is very well portrayed.

I'll not give away too much about the background but here is a precis of the hotspots.

Europe: Russia has nuked France into extinction and invaded Western Europe. The was is at stalemate, Germany, Austria and Italy have borne the brunt. A hint to designers, despite some nicely accurate stuff about the duke of Glouceter's son, talking about Elder, Middle and Younger Princes of Wales is really innacurate and grates. There is one Prince of Wales. (picky, picky )

Middle East: The Great Muslim War. Saud versus Iran versus Kurdistan versus Afghan versus Syrian etc. etc. Israel is gone. An exodus to Egypt to save them against aggression/invasion by an Islamic Confederation after their use of nuclear weapons saves the people of Israel. They now assist Egypt in resisting Islamic aggression.

Africa: The Forgotten War. Egypt and Libya have unified and with Israeli assistance have formed a formidable power block. Algeria is now home to millions of displaced French. Sub-saharan Africa is utter chaos, tribal conflicts rage across the interior with the coasts being somewhat more peaceful. South Africa is relatively unscathed and flourishing supplying arms to the world's conflicts.

North America. USA invades Mexico. Canada invades USA. China nukes USA and takes parts of Western seaboard.

Asia: War of Chinese Aggression. Speaks for itself. Much of SE Asia occupied.

So far, so good. No more or less unlikely than previous versions.
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Old November 9th, 2008, 09:24 AM
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"Canada invades USA"?

Is the turning point in this history far in our own past?
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Old November 9th, 2008, 10:16 AM
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Not so much a formal invasion as a flood of refugees who then arm against US aggression and atrocities.

It isn't bad speculation, certainly no worse than anything by Clancy or Coyle.
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Old November 9th, 2008, 11:21 AM
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Based on the blurb, a friend of mine, who usually has good instincts, suggested this may turn out to be Twilight 2000: The Emo Version. In other words, Mad Max plus drama.

Is there any indication of that?
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Old November 9th, 2008, 12:12 PM
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Not yet anyway. Still working my way through the "Reflex System" and the background seems straight forward enough.

I suppose the cantonments and company towns in the background combined with a few other points could be construed as Mad Max in nature but you play it how you want. I just want to get into the meat of the system.
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Old November 10th, 2008, 06:22 AM
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There are several points in the GM's Toolkit where they remind you it's not Mad Max.

The best part about the setting is that they set up a perfect storm of bad which caused a catastrophic global breakdown. No single nation will be quick to lead the world out of this. 90% of the population died, mostly through starvation, exposure, or disease as the world's infrastructure crumbled around them. There are wars everywhere, involving citizens and soldiers from everywhere. You could have an US-centric campaign in Asia, Europe, South America, and North America.

It's pretty cool. I like what I see so far. Won't have a chance to play for a few weeks, but it looks like it runs smooth.
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Old November 10th, 2008, 11:11 AM
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Default Invasions?

US invasions 5 years from now by allies.. plausible? I don't think the described scenario works or keeps in-line with the original game.

Anyhow, we'd nuke them flat and they'd know it. Exchanges in nuclear weapons on a tactical scale was the original direction. It's still plausible if terrorists and rogue countries are the driving force.
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Old November 10th, 2008, 02:01 PM
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Darn from the description...I was hoping for a sort of cross between Utopia and Dystopia. Funny that they have Canada invading the USA...that was part of the basis of my first Traveller Universe...making the Empire an offshoot of the colonization of the Canadian West...MoJ were akin to Mounties.
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Old December 5th, 2008, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
North America. USA invades Mexico. Canada invades USA.
So a nation with a total population of ~33,212,696 (July 2008 est.) invades a nation with a population of 301,139,947 (July 2007 est.)?? seems far fetched dont you think? I mean the population of Michigan is ~9,938,444 and has the Michigan Army National Guard at 8,910 as opposed to Canada's 60,000 regular troops and 20,000 reserves. This does not factor in the fact that Canada uses crappy gear compared to that used by US forces.

The point being that Canada would have a hard time invading Michigan and would probably be held or driven back before the US mobilized its Army having a strength of ~512,400. That is not counting all US forces BTW. Even with the current US deployments over seas canada would be substantially out numbered and out gunned in any engagement with US forces and that is before we factor in every hill billy in Michigan Ohio and Kentucky that owns a rifle and feels that sniping Canadian troops would be a good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
China nukes USA and takes parts of Western seaboard
How? US pacfleet sleeping? We don't manage to unleash hell on china with our ICBMs and boomers? Chinese soldiers use wire-fu to jump the pacific and avoid the US fleets and aircraft that would be defending the western seaboard? Do the designers really believe that China will out pace the US in military tech by such a huge amount in the next 6-7 years that they will be able to ship enough troops across the oceans to invade the US mainland? I understand that they are trying to make an interesting game but this is not even plausible. China tries to invade through Alaska... Dont see that working out to well either since the logistics required for such an invasion are beyond the means of China to support especially while trying to invade the rest of Asia and especially without the benifit of the US buying Chinese exports.

The fight in Mexico at least would be interesting since Mexico has the population and army size (Population: 108,700,891) Mexico's armed forces number some 620,400, including the reserves with a standing force of 181,356 active duty soldiers. despite the larger army and population does Mexico possess the technology to withstand a full on invasion by the US? I dont think so but that begs the question.. why would the US invade Mexico?
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Old December 5th, 2008, 01:03 AM
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I'll be a stinker here...

but neither Canada nor China "invade" the US
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