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The Fleet Ship designs, strategies, and tactics.

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Old March 11th, 2021, 04:49 PM
Madmax Madmax is offline
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Default Is it just me? Ship Deck Plans

I am disheartened.
Every Deck Plan I have looked at so far (and I am sure there are many I have not looked at), even in official Traveller products, is in gross violation of the Rules as Written.
Just a few minutes ago I was looking at the deck plans provided by someone (not sure who) for the Marava Class 200 ton Far Trader. If one actually counts the squares (and divides by two) it turns out to be a 256 ton ship.
Mongoose does not seem to be as bad. The Free Trader in the Core Rulebook, if one counts the squares (and divides by two) it turns out to be a 230 ton ship. It is rather difficult to count the squares due to large areas being colored in, so that tonnage is probably not accurate, but none the less is very likely to be larger than it should be.
I don't think I've ever seen a Deck Plan that comes anywhere near the 10% error allowed by the CT rules, and I've been playing Traveller since 1980. Don't get me started on the idiocy of the 100 ton Scout ship deck plans.
Mongoose rules don't even mention an error margin at all.
Why even have rules if every one (including FFE) just ignores them?
Well, does anyone agree, or is there something about Deck Plans that I have completely misunderstood for all these decades?
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Old March 11th, 2021, 05:12 PM
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The assumption is that each square represents a volume of one and half metres by one and a half metres by threeish metres, basically half a tonne.

The ceiling might not be that high.
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Old March 11th, 2021, 05:26 PM
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Here's a couple that are close to correct, give or take borrowing from the "bridge" space allocation for hallways and such, and maybe fudging the landing gear out of fuel tankage...
Type S as a Tailsitter Prolate Spheroid (COTI Thread)
Hull is 10% oversized.

Shugushaag (600Td J5 Freighter, LBB2 2nd Ed.) (COTI Thread)
Deck plans start here.
Hull is 4% undersized.

(Yes, they're my designs.)

There are several threads here on making "corrected" versions of canon deckplans. I think the main issue on the classic Type S plans is that the designers get clever by clipping the top and bottom outside corners of the forward staterooms to fit the hull shape, and not bothering to mention that they did so. Well, that and getting the math wrong on the overall dimensions, but that's a separate issue.
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Old March 11th, 2021, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmax View Post
I am disheartened.
Every Deck Plan I have looked at so far (and I am sure there are many I have not looked at), even in official Traveller products, is in gross violation of the Rules as Written.
Agreed, many published deck plans are more freeform than engineering drawings (I'm trying to be polite), but that has never prevented me from using them.

If we expected geometric perfection from every ship illustration or deck plan, there would not be many of those published. Just be happy there are so many deck plans produced for Traveller.
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Old March 11th, 2021, 06:52 PM
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Twenty percent is the figure given in Traders and Gun boats discussion on the topic.

Access space is part of that above 20%.

So with a nebulous number counting turns into a form of OCD, I know because I've been there.

Note Seeker called the Empress Markers 400 dTons.
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Old March 11th, 2021, 08:49 PM
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The actual deck plan grid itself is part of the problem. 1.5 meters (1 square) is about 5 feet, but how many 5 foot corridors do you see in the real world? The oversized grid (to accommodate oversized miniatures) tends to drive up the size of the plans.
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Old March 11th, 2021, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
The actual deck plan grid itself is part of the problem. 1.5 meters (1 square) is about 5 feet, but how many 5 foot corridors do you see in the real world? The oversized grid (to accommodate oversized miniatures) tends to drive up the size of the plans.
Yep, when I am drawing plans I don't count the walls or corridors. Note I tend to draw walls through the center of a square to give extra room for miniatures.
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Old March 11th, 2021, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
how many 5 foot corridors do you see in the real world?
The central access corridors of the ISS certainly look close. The baseline TL of the Imperium is 12 to 13, at which point the vacc suits are still pretty bulky. Two suited crew going opposite directions in a corridor are going to need the room.

Two Security thugs holding our Hero by the arms and shoulders on the way to the brig are going to need the room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmax
Mongoose does not seem to be as bad. The Free Trader in the Core Rulebook...
...were originally published at one deck square per ton, or only half-sized. This is the reason there's a corrected PDF of the sample ship section of the 1st Edition core book that is separate from the purchase version of that book. That lesson stuck, however.

Some of the Mongoose ships were also clearly designed to make for interesting gunfights, making very little sense otherwise. There's one "patrol" ship with a boarding ram that, for no discernible reason except Space Opera, put the brig three decks above the ram with only a ladder between them.

Deckplans are an ongoing case of "close enough for a game".
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Old March 11th, 2021, 10:43 PM
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Looking at the deck plans for the Empress Marava in Supplement 7: Traders and Gunboats gives some interesting results. I remember doing this for my own purposes quite a while ago, but I still find in interesting. The text describing the Far Trader lists the cargo capacity as 61 dTons. The description with the deck plans gives a cargo capacity of 46 dTons. Then actually counting the 1.5 meters squares in the cargo hold gives 88 dTons. As the fuel tank is above the cargo hold, and needs 60 dTons of volume for the fuel, that sort of dictates the size of the cargo hold.

Personally, I simply used the deckplans as given, as I am not sure if I wanted to go through the effort of producing my own, However, I will need to do that for my own sector. I lean more to ships looking like the Subsidized Merchant in Traders and Gunboats than anything else. I like straight-through loading.
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Old March 11th, 2021, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
The actual deck plan grid itself is part of the problem. 1.5 meters (1 square) is about 5 feet, but how many 5 foot corridors do you see in the real world? The oversized grid (to accommodate oversized miniatures) tends to drive up the size of the plans.
Cruise ship corridors run about that so that the ship's stewards can get two carts past each other. In schools and office buildings, the corridors are wider than ten feet. Five feet is actually pretty narrow for a corridor.
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