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T4 - Marc Miller's Traveller Discussion of T4 - Marc Miller's Traveller from Imperium Games and the Milieu 0 setting.

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Old January 29th, 2021, 11:48 AM
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ManOfGrey ManOfGrey is offline
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Default Robots in Milieu 0.

For those who have run games using the Milieu 0 material, how much have robots showed up in your games?

And what would they, (or should they,) be like... especially since Milieu 0 limits its tech level to (around) TL-12. Do they roll around on wheels or treads, or are they more anthropomorphic? Are they dumb machines that can understand only a few simple commands, or can you have a conversation with them? Can some be mistaken for humans, or are they like the droids in Star Wars, and are obviously mechanical constructs?

And the big white elephant question... can they kill people? In the books they briefly mention a Sylean convention that prohibits armed robots. Is this a thing? Or does the burgeoning Imperium use warbots?

I'm curious about everyone's thoughts on the matter.
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Old January 29th, 2021, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ManOfGrey View Post
Or does the burgeoning Imperium use warbots?

I'm curious about everyone's thoughts on the matter.
Considering everything we know TODAY, the 3I would use "warbots". If for no other reason(s) that why we will shortly. At our TL today we have that capability and it is in progress as I type this.
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Old January 29th, 2021, 12:18 PM
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LBB8 says Low Autonomous robots become available at TL-12:
Quote:
Low Autonomous: The robot can take independent action without direct commands and is able to understand simple inferences. Commands no longer need to be as explicit and the robot may be able to "'figure out what you meant". It can analyze data and arrive at some very simple obvious conclusions. However, robots with this program are not truly creative they cannot originate ideas on their own. This is not yet artificial intelligence. The robot remembers all data taken in by its sensors and can use the data to learn and gain "experience". The robot can improve the skill level of its application programs on its own.
Robots that can be mistaken for humans becomes available at TL-15:
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Pseudo-Biological: Soft-skinned biological look-alike, often of the creating race. At tech 15 and above, pseudo-biological robots may pass for members of their "race".
T5 probably has more to say...
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Old January 29th, 2021, 12:22 PM
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The Shudusham Concords were signed in -110 in the Sylean Federation, but lacks legal force in the 3I:
https://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Shudusham_Concords


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Originally Posted by LBB8
This disaster prompted twelve worlds of the Sylean Federation to meet on the neutral world of Shudusham to draft an agreement dealing with the issue of weaponry carried by robots. After much deliberation, all twelve worlds finally signed the completed Shudusham Concords in -110. A hardcopy is on display in the Museum of Sylean History on Capital.

The Concords have no legal force in the Third Irnperium, but they have served as a model for many high-tech worlds' documents governing the manufacture and use of robots.
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Old January 29th, 2021, 12:45 PM
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Default The Shudusham Concords

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Originally Posted by AnotherDilbert View Post
The Shudusham Concords were signed in -110 in the Sylean Federation, but lacks legal force in the 3I:
More specifically:

"A tragic attack against the Sylean Federation, which occurred in -112 in Core Sector, helped shape the Third Imperium's current attitudes regarding robots. A terrorist group rigged a Dover-Gabe courier robot to self-destruct, and managed to sneak it aboard a 90,000-ton Sylean battleship. The Empire's Banner was on a goodwill mission in orbit around the world Fornol (Core 1715) when the robot's hydrogen/oxygen fuel-cell exploded. Fornol's premier, two ambassadors, and a Sylean vice-minister were killed, along with a host of ship's officers and crew. The repercussions of this event were so far-reaching that the Sylean Federation was nearly thrown into a civil war.

"This disaster prompted twelve worlds of the Sylean Federation to meet on the neutral world of Shudusham to draft an agreement dealing with the issue of weaponry carried by robots. After much deliberation, all twelve worlds finally signed the completed Shudusham Concords in -110. A hardcopy is on display in the Museum of Sylean History on Capital."
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Old January 29th, 2021, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherDilbert View Post
LBB8 says Low Autonomous robots become available at TL-12:
Which we now know is incorrect as they can be made today at our TL.
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Old January 29th, 2021, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Proneutron View Post
Which we now know is incorrect as they can be made today at our TL.
But we're playing Traveller, not 21st Century Reality.

But yes, things changed far more in areas they did not think would change (computers) and far less in things they thought would change (grav, fusion).

I personally am quite fine with RAW despite flaws in the technology tree. I believe that other versions of Traveller (Cepheus, Mongoose) more closely align where things have changed.
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Old January 29th, 2021, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Proneutron View Post
Which we now know is incorrect as they can be made today at our TL.
But apparently not in the OTU...


Perhaps they are in the works or theoretically possible, but I see a distinct lack of working robots IRL. We can't even make a fully functional self-driving car after decades and many billions in R&D.
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Old January 29th, 2021, 02:54 PM
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To be more specific...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManOfGrey View Post
Do they roll around on wheels or treads, or are they more anthropomorphic?
Wheels, tracks, legs, and grav drives are all possible.

And of course robot brains can be built into regular machinery, so they are self-operated. Probably common on expensive machinery?


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Originally Posted by ManOfGrey View Post
Are they dumb machines that can understand only a few simple commands, or can you have a conversation with them?
Real robots, that can replace skilled workers ("High Autonomous"), are TL-13.

A TL-12 robot is probably not much of a conversationalist, but can follow generic instructions.

Lower tech robots are less interactive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ManOfGrey View Post
Can some be mistaken for humans, or are they like the droids in Star Wars, and are obviously mechanical constructs?
Pseudo-biologicals are TL-15, so no such robots at TL-12.


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Originally Posted by ManOfGrey View Post
And the big white elephant question... can they kill people? In the books they briefly mention a Sylean convention that prohibits armed robots. Is this a thing? Or does the burgeoning Imperium use warbots?
The Shudusham Concords regulates armed robots, it does not ban them. So, yes, robots can probably be armed and trained to kill sophonts, but it is presumably heavily regulated.

Security robots probably exist. Warbots might exist, but since Imperial sources often comment on how much the Zhodani uses warbots they are probably not all that common in the Imperium.

Different worlds and different regions in the Imperium probably differ in their application of warbots, i.e. it is not specified in detail so you can have as many or as few robots as you like.
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Old January 29th, 2021, 03:04 PM
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But we're playing Traveller, not 21st Century Reality.
Right. And smart phones don't exist until TL 45.
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