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The Fleet Ship designs, strategies, and tactics.

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Old February 19th, 2021, 01:00 PM
Grav_Moped Grav_Moped is offline
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Default Type S as a Tailsitter Prolate Spheroid

EDIT: Added descriptions of each deck -- see below.

The hull is a 2:1 (length:equatorial diameter) prolate spheroid, 22.5m x 11.25m.
This comes out to about 110Td excluding the turret -- close enough.

The longitudinal section highlights the elevator and flight deck access pathway, at the expense of not showing the fuel scoops or the layout of the Jump Drive. The former are the open rectangles on the periphery of decks 2-3, leading to the fuel processors (not needed under LBB2 for Scouts, but I'm putting them there anyhow) on deck 4. The latter are two cylinders extending through the drive deck and projecting upwards 2m into the fuel tank area -- this can be seen in the sectional view, but only in outline.

I may do an additional illustration of the top and bottom end-views to clarify those, but that's for later.

Deck 1, Deck 5, and the "cellar" under Deck 5 are each 2m tall, not the standard 3m.
The fuel tank's deck plan is omitted partly because of its lethal temperature and pressure, but mostly because there's not enough room on the "paper".

The heavy-weighted hull outline is each deck's mean diameter. The lighter outer circle is either the diameter at the floor of decks tapering toward the top, or at the ceiling of decks tapering toward the bottom. [EDIT: The outer circle of the drive bay deck should be a dashed line, but isn't.]

"Sparse" electronics and machinery spaces have passages through them, but hinder movement severely.
"Inert machinery" is just heavy machinery that doesn't get all explody when you shoot at it.

If printed full-size, it ought to be scaled correctly for Snapshot and AHL combat rules.
(The grid squares are 1/2", representing 1.5m in those systems.)



UPDATED CONTENT FOLLOWS:

Tailsitter S Details:

1. Flight Deck: There are two acceleration couches. The ceiling of this deck is a transparent parabolic dome; its peak is 2.25m above the deck. The floor hatch leads to the ladder shaft from the Pilot's Suite deck. There is no inter-deck space between this deck and the next, only a bulkhead.
Spoiler:
The clear dome is only there because people expect a cockpit to have windows. A more practical design would have sensors in the nose, and relocate the flight control station into the next deck down.

The "nose" section (stations 0m to 2.25m) is 1.8Td (2Td calculated volume). Here, as on all decks, the calculated volume is 10% larger than the components contained on the deck. This is because the prolate spheroid of the hull is 110Td in volume, not 100Td exactly.

2. Bridge Electronics and Pilot's Suite: There is one half-stateroom, with a bunk one one side and on the other, a compact washroom and closet. Sliding panels can enclose the bed space for privacy.

The open rectangular spaces at the deck perimeter are intakes for the fuel scoops. The scoops and associated machinery extend downward through the next two decks.

The ladder shaft up to the Flight Deck can serve as an airlock between the two decks if necessary.

Each level of the elevator shaft can serve as an airlock between decks, as there are airtight hatches in the shaft between each deck.
The elevator has emergency access hatches in its floor and ceiling, so a stuck elevator does not prevent access between decks. It also has UV sterilizing lights (with a safety interlock) and high-efficiency air filters for use when the elevator car becomes the dirt-side airlock by extending the elevator shaft down to ground level through the bottom cuve of the hull.
Spoiler:
This deck is my answer to the problem presented by the canon Type S: it's not safe to carry paying passengers, as the pilot's quarters and path to the bridge aren't defensible against a hijacking attempt. I solved it here by having the pilot live "on" the bridge.

The fuel scoop volume is allocated against fuel tank tonnage.

This section of the hull (stations 2.25m to 5.25m) is 11.7Td (13Td calculated volume).

3. Quarters Deck: There are three staterooms and an open lounge on this deck, as well as ducting and machinery for the fuel scoops and some electrical conduits.
Spoiler:
The fuel scoop volume is allocated against fuel tank tonnage. The electrical conduits and elevator are allocated against bridge tonnage.

This section of the hull (stations 5.25 to 8.25m) is 17.1Td (19Td calculated volume).

4. Cargo Deck: There is a 7TD cargo bay which also holds the ship's 4Td Air/Raft. There are also a personnel airlock, the ship's locker, and access to the ship's turret from the space outboard of the elevator. The processing machinery of the fuel scoops is also on this deck.

The cargo bay has a retractable winch gantry rated at 6000kg.

There are wall brackets for pre-staging ordnance next to the turret access iris valve, to facilitate reloading during combat.

The "sparse machinery" around the personnel airlock includes the airlock docking coupler (retracted) and air tanks, compressors, and filters/sterilizers for cycling the airlock.
Spoiler:
LBB2 doesn't require any space to be allocated for fuel processing by military/scout vessels. The scoops and machinery are just a pretext to bring some "fuel tank" tonnage up past the hull's equator. That, and I think they make a nice counterpoint to the huge Jump Drive exhaust nozzles, which we'll get to in a bit. The ship's locker and some of the hallway space are drawn from the bridge allocation.

This section of the hull (stations 8.25m to 11.25m) is 19.8Td (22Td calculated volume).

[Not numbered] Fuel Tank: This deck is 8.25m tall. The 3 landing gear wells (1.5m square by 2m tall, conformal to the curve of the hull) extend up into this space at the 1-, 5-, and 9-o'clock positions. The top of the Jump Drive extends into this space as two cylinders 3m in diameter by 2m tall, located above the 3m diameter circles on the Drive Bay deck plan. The elevator passes through this space as a 1.5m square pillar at the 3-o'clock position, 2.25m from the center of the deck. The lower half of the turret projects 1.5m into this space from the ceiling.
Spoiler:
This section of the hull (stations 11.25m to 17.5m) is 6.25m tall, and is 35Td (36.5Td calcuated volume).
The jump drive extensions into this space are because I used a couple of Td of the drive bay for the elevator and landing gear wells.

I'll probably do a sketch of the fuel tank to show what I did. It's a kind of complicated visually, made worse because I'm drawing in MS Paint...

I didn't do deck plans for it because nobody should be in there in the first place. Well, that and there wasn't room on the "sheet of paper" for it... LOL


5. Drive Bay: There is an acceleration couch and control console. The two 3m dia. circles of heavy machinery are the Jump Drive. They are cylindrical and extend upwards into the fuel tank by 2m, and down to the curve of the hull in the space below this deck. The floor hatch provides access to a roughly 1.5m square by 2m tall maintenance niche below. The three 1.5m squares at the deck periphery are the landing gear wells; they extend 2m upwards into the fuel tank space.

The elevator tube can be extended downward through the hull (through a hull door at about the level of the maintenance niche below this deck) to ground level.

There is no inter-deck space between this deck and the fuel tank, nor in the space between this deck and the maintenance access space below it.
Spoiler:

This section of the hull (stations 17.5m to 28.5m) is 15Td (16.5Td calculated volume)

Last edited by Grav_Moped; February 19th, 2021 at 11:54 PM.. Reason: Added details, then fixed line break issues from text cut/paste
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Old February 19th, 2021, 02:21 PM
AnotherDilbert AnotherDilbert is offline
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Nicely done, but it illustrates a problem with tall narrow tail-sitters: The extraordinary amount of access-ways needed, e.g. the lift shaft is something like 4 Dt alone.


Highly subjective comments:

I would probably let the outer curvature of the hull be fuel tanks, that way the usable space can have vertical wall and be easier to use. Perhaps even a square crew space box.

2 m decks are very low; some people are over 2 m and so low ceilings are very oppressive for shorter people. Crawlspaces sure, but regular work areas is a bit questionable.

Separating the hangar and the cargo space allows you to drive the air/raft without exposing the entire cargo space to the exterior environment. It is good to have the cargo hold close to the air/raft, so you can use it to load/unload.

Having the bridge only accessible through the Pilot's bedroom is a bit awkward, especially if we use a co-pilot/navigator.

You are quite a bit over specification for crew spaces, deck 3 space alone is about 15 Dton, add to that the Pilot's stateroom and the storage on deck 4 plus the lift shaft you are up to something like 25 Dt for the 16 Dt "stateroom" space.

I would add emergency access between the decks, in case of power loss.
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Old February 19th, 2021, 04:14 PM
Condottiere Condottiere is offline
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Think of the access ways as substitute corridors.
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Old February 19th, 2021, 04:28 PM
whartung whartung is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Condottiere View Post
Think of the access ways as substitute corridors.
Yea, but how much is it wasted space.

Simply, if I have, say, a 1200 sq. ft. house, and it's a classic, generic "ranch" single story. How much "living" space is there (bedrooms, bathrooms, living areas, kitchen).

Now create a 3 floor 1200 sq. ft. house with stairs. Does it have more or less?

I honestly don't know. But the feel is certainly different.
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Old February 19th, 2021, 04:38 PM
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Depends on how you conventionally determine that for a more laid back deckplan.

In theory, staterooms are only three tonnes, with the extra tonne used to create access to said stateroom; in practice, access is drawn in where convenient, as well as for other modules, such as engineering or the bridge.

You could just have a central elevator, and have the spaceship components cluster around that.
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Old February 19th, 2021, 04:47 PM
AnotherDilbert AnotherDilbert is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Condottiere View Post
In theory, staterooms are only three tonnes, with the extra tonne used to create access to said stateroom; ...
Depends on what book you believe:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBB5'80, p33
Staterooms require four tons at a cost of Cr500,OOO per stateroom. Staterooms actually average about two tons, but the additional tonnage is used to provide corridors and access ways, as well as galley and recreation areas.

The early deck plans, e.g. in S7, are generally vastly oversized.
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Old February 19th, 2021, 04:43 PM
AnotherDilbert AnotherDilbert is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whartung View Post
Now create a 3 floor 1200 sq. ft. house with stairs. Does it have more or less?
Normal stairs would take something like 200 sq ft? So, a significant percentage of the house. Or very steep stairs?

The stairs would also have to be accessible at the same place at every floor, constraining the floor plan.

Three floors is a lot for only 1200 sq ft.
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Old February 19th, 2021, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDilbert View Post
Normal stairs would take something like 200 sq ft? So, a significant percentage of the house. Or very steep stairs?

The stairs would also have to be accessible at the same place at every floor, constraining the floor plan.

Three floors is a lot for only 1200 sq ft.
actually - my sister has a 15x28 per floor for 1260 sq feet in her 3 story townhouse...the stairs don't seem to take up that much space
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Old February 19th, 2021, 04:16 PM
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Perhaps something like this:


Closer to design specified tonnage.

No sexy round decks, but easier to furnish and use?
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Old February 19th, 2021, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDilbert View Post
Nicely done, but it illustrates a problem with tall narrow tail-sitters: The extraordinary amount of access-ways needed, e.g. the lift shaft is something like 4 Dt alone.


Highly subjective comments:

I would probably let the outer curvature of the hull be fuel tanks, that way the usable space can have vertical wall and be easier to use. Perhaps even a square crew space box.
That's a good way to do it, and I've done up designs that used that paradigm. To some extent the layout was influenced by a wanting to re-create something I drew up in 1986.
Quote:

2 m decks are very low; some people are over 2 m and so low ceilings are very oppressive for shorter people. Crawlspaces sure, but regular work areas is a bit questionable.
The flight deck is specifically just acceleration couches under a clear dome; the 2m clearance from the floor bulkhead is to the dome directly above the seats.

In the cases above, I'm just declaring that the deck below (or above) the skinny ones is a simple bulkhead without a false ceiling or floor. The drive room is cramped, intentionally.
Quote:

Separating the hangar and the cargo space allows you to drive the air/raft without exposing the entire cargo space to the exterior environment. It is good to have the cargo hold close to the air/raft, so you can use it to load/unload.
It's also fairly close to the turret, which makes ordnance reloads easier. It'd be easy enough to separate out the cargo bay with a bulkhead down the middle and replacing the single iris valve in the center with one to each compartment.
Quote:

Having the bridge only accessible through the Pilot's bedroom is a bit awkward, especially if we use a co-pilot/navigator.
Perhaps the description is a bit misleading. The "bedroom" is a bunk on one side and a mini-restroom on the other, plus a small food-storage/prep station/closet. The bunk is behind a fold-away partition.

It's my answer to the problem of the canon Type S, of "how do you carry passengers without getting hijacked?" Just have the pilot sleep on the bridge!

Normally the pilot would spend a lot of time on the main crew quarters deck.
Quote:

You are quite a bit over specification for crew spaces, deck 3 space alone is about 15 Dton, add to that the Pilot's stateroom and the storage on deck 4 plus the lift shaft you are up to something like 25 Dt for the 16 Dt "stateroom" space.
Deck 3 (station 5.25m through 8.25m) is 19Td on the plans (calculated), but represents 17.1Td of by-the-book space since the hull shape is 10% oversized at the listed dimensions.

I'm counting most corridors, the personnel airlock, the ship's locker, and the elevator shaft, against the Bridge space allocation. Depending on how you look at it, the Pilot's Suite is 4Td, not 6 -- the path through the middle can be considered Bridge space.

The calculated volume of the upper half of the ship (including half the turret bubble) is 55.5Td on plans, 50.5Td nominal. It holds 44.5Td of components, plus 5.5Td of fuel tankage (in the form of the gratuitous fuel scoops and processors).
Quote:

I would add emergency access between the decks, in case of power loss.
I assume the elevator has emergency hatches in the floor and ceiling.
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