Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > Other Versions of Traveller > Classic Traveller

Classic Traveller Discussion on the granddaddy of them all, Classic Traveller!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old September 13th, 2019, 10:01 PM
Diveguy Diveguy is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Gallery : 7
Diveguy Citizen+Diveguy Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
It's a moving part with springs, clips, locks etc - plenty of stuff that can brake that can't on a fixed stock.
Eh - based on real-world experience, on any modern folding stock - if a piece like that is broken enough that it might affect accuracy, it's because the stock as a whole has become non-functional. But as far as reducing accuracy on a regular basis? Not a factor.

As point of fact - a high percentage of modern "sniper" or "designated marksman" type rifles actually utilize some form of folding or collapsable stock to reduce overall length for transport - and they certainly aren't seeing any reduction in accuracy or other issues because of it.
__________________
Sir Dominic Storm, Viscount Shershe, Captain Imperial Space Marines (Retired)

Shershe DAGU 2728 C540874-8
Ulaun ZARU 0405 C667153-A
TAS Ulaun
SEH
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old September 14th, 2019, 12:12 AM
timerover51's Avatar
timerover51 timerover51 is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: North of Chicago
Posts: 6,470
Gallery : 4
Visit timerover51's Blog
timerover51 Beloved Citizentimerover51 Beloved Citizentimerover51 Beloved Citizentimerover51 Beloved Citizentimerover51 Beloved Citizentimerover51 Beloved Citizentimerover51 Beloved Citizentimerover51 Beloved Citizen
Default

I was at the gunshop today and was looking at a few rifles with adjustable stocks, where you can change the length of the stock to fit the firer. Some of those collapse quite a bit, so at to approximate a folding stock. Where do those fit into this discussion?

Then there are the shotguns with just a pistol grip, and no stock. For an example, see the double-barrel sawed-off shotgun used by James Caan in "El Dorado."
__________________
Star Port Administrator: El Paso, El Paso, Sword Sub-sector, Piper-Norton Out Rim Sector
Link to Piper Sector: http://www.zarthani.net/ridder-mankind_to_the_stars.htm
Do you have a security clearance? New Oct. 24 Blog Entry-Birthday
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElI451TxsTg, 3:24 in.
I march to my own set of bagpipes. Caution: This individual thinks that studying logistics is FUN.

They that go down to the sea in ships,
that do business in great waters;
These see the works of the LORD,
and his wonders in the deep.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old September 14th, 2019, 02:56 AM
Brandon C Brandon C is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 883
Gallery : 0
Brandon C Citizen+Brandon C Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whartung View Post
No, stocks are design to stabilize the weapon, regardless of recoil.
Specifically, it provides the shooter with three points of contact (shoulder, both hands) rather than two points of contact (both hands). This improves stability and thus accuracy.
__________________
A generous and sadistic GM,
Brandon Cope

My website: http://copeab.tripod.com
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old September 14th, 2019, 03:02 AM
Brandon C Brandon C is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 883
Gallery : 0
Brandon C Citizen+Brandon C Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diveguy View Post
Eh - based on real-world experience, on any modern folding stock - if a piece like that is broken enough that it might affect accuracy, it's because the stock as a whole has become non-functional. But as far as reducing accuracy on a regular basis? Not a factor.
Most folding stocks aren't as stable as fixed stocks. I think the modifier represents an average folding stock: cheaper and more flimsy and pricier and more stable folding stocks exist. I would dare say the folding stocks on sniper rifle are more expensive than ones found on an average infantry service rifle.
__________________
A generous and sadistic GM,
Brandon Cope

My website: http://copeab.tripod.com
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old September 14th, 2019, 03:43 AM
mike wightman's Avatar
mike wightman mike wightman is offline
Noble
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 16,620
Gallery : 0
mike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diveguy View Post
Eh - based on real-world experience, on any modern folding stock - if a piece like that is broken enough that it might affect accuracy, it's because the stock as a whole has become non-functional. But as far as reducing accuracy on a regular basis? Not a factor.
My experience is not exactly modern - my comment is based on the sterling smgs I handled. Several of the folding stocks were very loose -due to age no doubt - and definitely affected accuracy.

Quote:
As point of fact - a high percentage of modern "sniper" or "designated marksman" type rifles actually utilize some form of folding or collapsable stock to reduce overall length for transport - and they certainly aren't seeing any reduction in accuracy or other issues because of it.
Which highlights that higher TL stuff should have different mods - which is a decision the ref can make for their game.
__________________
The beauty of CT LBB1-3 is that the ref is free to make such decisions for themselves.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old September 14th, 2019, 07:04 PM
Diveguy Diveguy is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Gallery : 7
Diveguy Citizen+Diveguy Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
My experience is not exactly modern - my comment is based on the sterling smgs I handled. Several of the folding stocks were very loose -due to age no doubt - and definitely affected accuracy.

Which highlights that higher TL stuff should have different mods - which is a decision the ref can make for their game.
Yes, I can certainly agree - the Sterling stocks, the older Uzi stocks and many of the MP-5 stocks (particularly with age) were a far cry from a fixed stock. My observations were more based on current-issue or off-the-shelf options, which are a far sight better (no pun intended).

And yes, to comment on the other post - like anything else, "you get what. you pay for" - whether in a collapsing/folding stock, weapon optics, laser system or the like. As in many things, it comes down to how in the weeds you want to get in your game with tech level, weapon. options, price details and all the other choices.

My initial observation was more to offer a counterpoint to the negative DM concept that "folding stocks are inherently less accurate than fixed."
__________________
Sir Dominic Storm, Viscount Shershe, Captain Imperial Space Marines (Retired)

Shershe DAGU 2728 C540874-8
Ulaun ZARU 0405 C667153-A
TAS Ulaun
SEH
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old September 14th, 2019, 11:06 PM
Condottiere Condottiere is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,540
Gallery : 0
Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++
Default

The point of the folding stock is that it takes up less room, especially during transit.



It could be completely solid or skeletal.



Each variation with it's own disadvantages or penalties.

In combat, you expect the user to have it snapped in full position; the question becomes at what point does the user decide the advantage of having it retracted or left folded outweighs the inherent penalty.

If the user has the inherent strength to absorb recoil, at close quarters follow up shots should be accurate enough.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old September 16th, 2019, 05:23 AM
Brandon C Brandon C is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 883
Gallery : 0
Brandon C Citizen+Brandon C Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diveguy View Post
Yes, I can certainly agree - the Sterling stocks, the older Uzi stocks and many of the MP-5 stocks (particularly with age) were a far cry from a fixed stock. My observations were more based on current-issue or off-the-shelf options, which are a far sight better (no pun intended).
I'll note that fixed rifle stocks have also improved over the years (strsight to semi-pistol to pistol, to adjustable stocks with or without recoil padding). So, while folding stocks have improved, so have fixed stocks, and making a distinction between the two at any TL is valid.
__________________
A generous and sadistic GM,
Brandon Cope

My website: http://copeab.tripod.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Folding Spear Blue Ghost Ship's Locker 19 May 10th, 2016 10:28 AM
Judges Guild Traveller PDFs, Articles Reprints, and T20 Remaining Stocks on RPGRealms hunter TAS News Feed 0 March 31st, 2011 05:45 AM
Is T20 folding? Supplement Four Classic Traveller 69 June 28th, 2006 04:57 AM
Folding SMG Todg Ship's Locker 0 February 10th, 2004 05:41 PM

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010- Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.