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  #11  
Old March 9th, 2014, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceBadger View Post
Thanks for the info. I have skipped that section of the book so far, but will read it now. Will also look at the two airship combat books.

EDIT: We would not be using boiler and sails at same time, would we? Boiler in space, sails in atmosphere? Or else I suppose we would need to take down the upper sails to allow the sun to shine on the boiler.
No, we won't. In Canal Priests of Mars it's told that the mirror for the bolier is folded when entring into atmosphere. It would also be then where the masts are telescoped out to allow for the sails to be used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceBadger View Post
EDIT2: Are lower masts hinged or stowed in some way so as not to interfere with landing the ship?
As the ship is inteneded to be able to land outside specialized facilitites, it can not have lower sails.

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Originally Posted by SpaceBadger View Post
I think I need some clarification here. Personally, since my PC is a gunner, I think I like the sound of "turrets" better than "balconies".
Quote:
Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
What about a barbette, like on the early Monitor class ships and early dreadnoughts?

(A projecting semicircular platform with a half wall that the gun fires over.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceBadger View Post
I dunno, as one of the guys inside the thing, I really like Aramis's suggestion of a sponson turret. Plus I have examples of that type turret I can copy from early WWI tanks that would look pretty cool (example).

But it's McBean's airship, so I'm waiting to see how attached McPerth is to that balcony idea.



EDIT: If a turret, would need firing slits to allow one or two others into turret to fire out with rifles. Otherwise the barbette would be better (barbetter? ).


EDIT 2: Or maybe some armored walls w rifle slits elsewhere onboard?


*
I like the barbette/sponson idea, but in the rules book is specified that inventros don't use to have access to those turrets, that's why I envisioned them as balconies (even while this would unfurtonantely left the gunners outside the armor).

Also, I don't think those sponsoons could be airthight, so the guns would be unusable in space in any case.

This aside, if they are in such sponsoons would need 10% weight extra, so 3 tons would have to be subtracted from the cargo hold.
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  #12  
Old March 9th, 2014, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
No, we won't. In Canal Priests of Mars it's told that the mirror for the bolier is folded when entring into atmosphere. It would also be then where the masts are telescoped out to allow for the sails to be used.



As the ship is inteneded to be able to land outside specialized facilitites, it can not have lower sails.







I like the barbette/sponson idea, but in the rules book is specified that inventros don't use to have access to those turrets, that's why I envisioned them as balconies (even while this would unfurtonantely left the gunners outside the armor).

Also, I don't think those sponsoons could be airthight, so the guns would be unusable in space in any case.

This aside, if they are in such sponsoons would need 10% weight extra, so 3 tons would have to be subtracted from the cargo hold.
COnsider them the gift of the OS. Normal inventors only get to mount one gun...
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  #13  
Old March 9th, 2014, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
COnsider them the gift of the OS. Normal inventors only get to mount one gun...


Great, guys, that gives me a lot to work with! Probably won't be able to get to sleep for visions of rigid airships with sails dancing in my head.

Oh, one more idea I had, I actually kinda like the idea McPerth/McBean proposed of having balconies as long as my PC wouldn't have to rely on them while being shot at... So how about a couple of observation balconies out to each side, unarmed, in addition to the turrets? (and placed so as to minimize interference w turrets line of fire)



EDIT: With the turrets working as Aramis outlined (useable in vacuum but only for short time due to air leakage) I don't think the rifle firing slits that I mentioned earlier would work at all - even with some sort of sliding covers, that would be lots of moving parts to seal against vacuum. Would the idea of having rifle slits elsewhere work, or am I thinking too hard to make this scientific vessel into a military ship?



*
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  #14  
Old March 9th, 2014, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
COnsider them the gift of the OS. Normal inventors only get to mount one gun...
Ok, then the cargo is reduced to 34 tons (3 tons subtracted for armored sponsons, 2 for photo lab and 1 for chamera system). Ship edited in McBean's ressearch thread. Please, review it.
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  #15  
Old March 9th, 2014, 04:43 AM
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ItemŁTonsCrew
Hull 150T hydrogen650001 (deckhands)Hull Size 1.5
Armor 115015none
Control Roomfree12 (bridge)
Solar boiler Power 5*102 (engineering)
Ether propeller Power 4*4noneReliability 5 = 0.35 Eff
Rigging (as kite)900152 (topmen)
Forced Draught boiler(size 2)2000100 (engineers)Includes Airscrews
Coal bunker010none10/2=50 days
2 x 6pdr HRC440332 (gunners)Sponsons armor 1
Laboratory20003none
Chamera system0*1none
Photo lab0*2none
Conservatory2002none
4 passengers8010none
Cargo0 34 none
Totals1227015011


*In fact, the Price is paid by the REC as installing it.

Speed = 4*0.35/1.5 = .9 MM/D

Airspeed under boil: 6*Es/Hs (with amount ≥6 halved) = 6*2/1.5=12/1.5=8, which reduces to 7. She's FAST under boil.... that's 35kts. A 10 hour steam day is 350 NM...

Crew is Cpt, officer, Pilot, Signalman, deckhand, 2 topmen, 2 engineers, 2 gunners (and cat ). Passengers include survey officer and reporter.

The 6 pdr HRC are in side sponsoons with 180o fire ark (aft, stern and its own boardside).
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  #16  
Old March 9th, 2014, 04:50 AM
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Very nice!

Can it have any aerodynamic shape to it for more lift, or is that too advanced?

Or basic tube shape w rounded ends, gondola underneath, decks in among the gasbags as y'all said in the OOC thread, deck on top w some arrangement of sails that I am yet having a bit of trouble envisioning? I will study the 1889 airship pictures as well as the RL airship stuff I have found online, and try to get a decent sketch made tomorrow sometime.


EDIT: Oh, my, there is a lot in this thread that I missed when originally posted! Will need to read in detail tomorrow.





*
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  #17  
Old March 9th, 2014, 05:08 AM
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Nothing in 1889 shows significant aerodynamics except for the gliders and certain critters. I'd say that real streamlining would be about 5% of hull mass & +5% armor for fairings, inefficient curves, etc.
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  #18  
Old March 9th, 2014, 01:38 PM
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IIRC airships generate increased lift by adjusting the trim ... like when you hold your hand out a car window and tilt the thumb side up to increase the lift on your hand. I think that it added up to about 10% lift to the natural buoyancy.
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  #19  
Old March 9th, 2014, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
IIRC airships generate increased lift by adjusting the trim ... like when you hold your hand out a car window and tilt the thumb side up to increase the lift on your hand. I think that it added up to about 10% lift to the natural buoyancy.
When under power, yep.
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aramis.hostman.us /trav
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
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SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
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  #20  
Old March 13th, 2014, 02:49 PM
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Ok, decision time... is the ether prop in the tail of the envelope, or in the aft of the gondola?

Airscrew propellers - off the sides of the gondola? off the sides of the gassbag? Large single one behind the tail? On the horizontal stabilizers of the tail?

Guns - sides of gondola or gasbag?
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Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
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Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
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SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
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