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  #131  
Old March 27th, 2014, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by SpaceBadger View Post
Also, since we are looking at Reality as opposed to straight book rules on some other issues (hydrogen), can we have all or half of our HRC ammo as shrapnel or grapeshot (p.99)? Either of those would seem to be quite useful in aerial combat, but I remember it said somewhere in the rules that HRC ammo is limited to explosive shells due to the size of the shells. However, we don't have the little 1 pounder or 3 pounder HRCs, we have the big 6 pounder HRCs, and it seems reasonable that shrapnel and/or grapeshot should be available in that size. What sayeth the GM?
There have been several years since I read and played Soldiers Companion (I guess it was there, or in IC&EF, as I don't find it in the core book nor in CS&GB), but ITTR that the HRC (as most rotating/Gatling guns) had some limits to the kinds of amo it could fire. I'm not sure if the limits were to grapeshot, to shrapnel or what they where, but ITTR that made them less useful against infantry...

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I'm bored out of my mind and in to much pain to sleep. So...

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/cann...olving-cannon/
Very nice, TY
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  #132  
Old March 27th, 2014, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by aramis View Post
WHat the ship has is a GDW "created" 6# HRC, NOT a 6#QF (The QF is out of period - 1900 or so.)
Sigh. OK. The #6 HRC is also out of period, of course, in that it never existed. Do you think the QF is actually more advanced, or just an idea that didn't get built until later? The development path as described in the articles I linked certainly doesn't seem to me to rely on any great tech advance, only a recognition of the right gun for the job.

So we have, what, something like a #1 HRC, but bigger?

As you say, this is a made-up gun that did not really exist, so who is to say that some intelligent fellow would not have seen the utility of having shrapnel and/or grapeshot shells for it?

What about carrying a box or two of shrapnel/grapeshot for use in single-shot fire only, to avoid the auto-fire jamming problems that you mentioned?

Or do we just have over-sized machineguns that are useless against other airships unless we get lucky and hit something solid enough to make the shell explode rather than simply passing through?
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  #133  
Old March 27th, 2014, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceBadger View Post
Or do we just have over-sized machineguns that are useless against other airships unless we get lucky and hit something solid enough to make the shell explode rather than simply passing through?
Timer fuses were available at that time. The most primitive were simply a pre-cut length of fuse with a known burn rate. It was ignited by the hot gases in the barrel on firing and did not have to be separately lit. "Dial" fuses, preset, and screwed into the shell were also used. In any case the range must be known with relative accuracy.

You can always aim for the boiler, engine, motors etc., should time delay fuses not use available. Chain shot, or bar shot, from a smooth-bore (6# Brass Horse Artillery piece or Mountain Gun) could do some amazing damage to the structure of the ships in use.
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  #134  
Old March 27th, 2014, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceBadger View Post
Or do we just have over-sized machineguns that are useless against other airships unless we get lucky and hit something solid enough to make the shell explode rather than simply passing through?
Well, in fact, the 6# HRC is depicted in game as an anti-ship weapon, more tan anything else. About going through a ship without doing too much damage if the pen power is higher tan the armor, this is already ruled in CS&GB.
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  #135  
Old March 27th, 2014, 06:15 PM
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For what little it might be worth, historic airships (blimps and Zeppelins) are so darn big that putting holes in the envelope (whether an over-penetrating one big shell hole or a whole bunch of little over-penetrating machine gun holes) had very little impact on buoyancy ... it just takes so long for enough of the gas to leak out.

What a bag of hydrogen really fears are tracers. Incendiary plus H2 plus air equals very bad.

This is just from my reading about historic airships.
I have no idea about the mechanics of the Space1889 combat rules.
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  #136  
Old March 27th, 2014, 06:47 PM
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with weapon, I much ptefer sticking to what is written.

As for the 6# HRC vs 6# QF, the QF is a more advanced weapon, due to a rotating breech and recoil operation. There was a period 6# shell, there were plans for, but no construction of, a 6# HRC, using the same action, scaled up, as the historic 1#.

due to the action, feeding nonstandard is technically doable, but you can't load anything the wrong length and shape or it will jam. And the feed is designed only for crimped centerfire cartridge 6# rear mounted impact fuse pointed nose explosive shells, firing at 1-1.5 rounds per second. The overall rounds are probably nigh on 20# complete, and it will fire them as fast as you feed them.

There is no single shot mode. with the 5 barrels, it's ejecting two, loading one, seating one, and firing the last. It is crank operated, too... muscle, not powder, cycles the weapon, and it's probably 200# barrel set.

Good news... it can't "run away" it is limited to the ammo in the feed
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  #137  
Old March 27th, 2014, 08:31 PM
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I believe there is an error in the HP for fuel consumption/endurance: 50 days on 10 tons of coal?

Also, how is the weight of the ships armor calculated?
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  #138  
Old March 28th, 2014, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
What a bag of hydrogen really fears are tracers. Incendiary plus H2 plus air equals very bad.
You're right. The tracers were used with quite good effect against the Zeppelins bombing UK starting in (IIRC) 1917.

In fact, I was about to suggest tracers as a new invention (explosives knowledge), giving modifiers to the TH roll (dependent on its reliability) and starting fires (as martian fire liquid) on airships, but only usable for automatic weapons (HRC, Gatlings, etc..). I had doubts about the numbers to give (knowledge needed and reliability roll).

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Originally Posted by Vladika View Post
I believe there is an error in the HP for fuel consumption/endurance: 50 days on 10 tons of coal?
You're right too. If you see the cell, it says 10/2=50, what's obviously wrong, as 10/2=5. The HP endurance on coal is 5 days (that, given most time it will cruise as a kite, was deemed enough for combat and landing/taking off opperations, that is when the steam engine is used). Fixed now.

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Also, how is the weight of the ships armor calculated?
According CS&GB armor weights 10 tons per AF per size factor. So, the HP's armor, being armor 1 and size 1.5, weights 15 tons (as shown in the table).
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  #139  
Old March 28th, 2014, 09:44 AM
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McPerth

I came across the following from Science Marches On by James L. Cambias, (written for Space:1889) Maybe it'll be helpful.

A publication for new, as yet undiscovered, inventions.
Quote:
COMBUSTION
Incendiary Bullets: (17,2). These bullets, impregnated with phosphorous or some similar chemical, are especially effective against highly flammable targets (such as zeppelins). Objects hit by incendiary bullets have a chance of catching fire equal to the reliability. The effect on living targets is normal, Price: Ł1 per 50 rounds.
Now, to pester you further...

The HP weight of 33 listed for the gun sponsons?

Also:

Hull size...

In the core rules, p70 inventions, Improved Liftwood, it eludes to a hull size off 1 per 50 lifted tons? (referencing Sky Galleons of Mars) I thought that a hull size of 1 per 100 tons was correct. Do you know where that comes from?

Thanks in advance. I'm wading through this with my deteriorating vision problems the best I can and help is much appreciated.
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  #140  
Old March 28th, 2014, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladika View Post
McPerth

I came across the following from Science Marches On by James L. Cambias, (written for Space:1889) Maybe it'll be helpful.

A publication for new, as yet undiscovered, inventions.
Quite interesting. So, the needed knowledge would be 17 (I guess in explosives) and the reliability number 2...

I'd add a to hit bonus equal to 1/2 reliability (rounded down) at long range for auto weapons (MGs and HRC)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladika View Post
Now, to pester you further...

The HP weight of 33 listed for the gun sponsons?
Not pestering me at all.

Again, according to CS&GB armor can be added for free to guns if they only fire at one side, as they are assumed to be under armor, but they add 1/10 of its weight per armor factor if they can fire at more tan one angle (turrets or sponsoons). So, the two HRC (15 ton each, so 30 ton) withing armor 1 sponsoons (10% added) weight a total of 33 tons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladika View Post
Also:

Hull size...

In the core rules, p70 inventions, Improved Liftwood, it eludes to a hull size off 1 per 50 lifted tons? (referencing Sky Galleons of Mars) I thought that a hull size of 1 per 100 tons was correct. Do you know where that comes from?
I don't know. In CS&GB a hull size is able to lift up to 160 tons (albeit at reduced altitudes). I don't own IC&EF, and thre's a longtime since I read it, so I don't remember how it treated it (Aramis stated that it allows for partial HS and that in EF 100 tons per HS could be lift up to ether propeller altittude).

Quote:
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Thanks in advance. I'm wading through this with my deteriorating vision problems the best I can and help is much appreciated.
You're wellcome. I always thought this game should also be used as infromation and example for playing 1889 (a game that has not the fame it deserves, IMHO). That was also the reason to show as detailed as it was in the McBean's Ressearch thread the ressearch and invention process (something quite unique of this game, AFAIK).
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