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Old June 9th, 2017, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by kilemall View Post
I am not gainsaying the process of 'negotiated DMs' or the expressed avoidance of a task system such as what later versions or homebrews bolted on, especially later versions that tend to force Roll Playing. Both are opinions and perfectly valid approaches to reffing.

What I am saying is that if one is to qualify a version as truly retclone, then it should have all those quirky rolls, some of which certainly are skill/task sort of rolls and NOT just saving throws.

Else one is doing a CE version of a personal vision of what CT was/is- which is fine, I just don't think it deserves the title retclone.

I was asking because when I read the skill list in the 1977* edition of Book 1 I see that 13 of the 22 Throws** listed are defined by avoiding-things-going-wrong in one way or another. (I'm including things like Forgery and Gambling here, where failure to avoid detection by definition means something will go wrong, as well skills like Leadership in which failure can lead to things going wrong.) As for the other 9 without doubt the examples fall outside the need of crisis... but as a Referee I'm not sure why I would introduce rolls outside of a crisis.

I say this because as Book 1 states: "A newly generated character is singularly unequipped to deal with the adventuring world, having neither the expertise nor the experience necessary for the active life."

So I assume PCs are relatively accomplished and competent at one they do. If a PC has Admin-1 I'm probably not going to make the Player make a Throw simply because he's doing something that can tap Admin. Admin-1 means, in my view, he can handle most Admin situations that don't involve special circumstances. And generally, in my games at least, special circumstances involve some sort of crisis. (He is being observed; failure will lead to heavy-duty trouble from the authorities; and so on.) In other words, I am applying the logic of the 13 skill descriptions I mentioned above to most situations. Because for the most part I assume that if there is no pressure, given enough time and no stress, a PC can pretty much do what he was trained to do.

Finally, on p. 20 of Book 1 (1977) there is this passage:

Skills and the Referee: It is impossible for any table of information to cover all aspects of every potential situation, and the above listing is by no means complete in its coverage of the effects of skills. This is where the referee becomes an important part of the game process. The above listing of skills and game effects must necessarily be taken as a guide, and followed, altered, or ignored as the actual situation dictates.
[ -- emphasis added]

The passage above was cut from every other edition from Basic Traveller. Which I think is a shame since it nails down (in my view at least) the philosophy and practice of play the original Classic Traveller rules depend on. With th text above one isn't looking for a unified task system because the game isn't lacking one. It's a loosey-goosey system for the Referee to make up significant rolls as reacquired. And, specifically, it says the skill descriptions are guides to be "followed, altered or ignored" per actual situations at the table -- not set in stone applications of the rules.

All of this is to say: None of this concretely supports or refutes how either you are I approach the text. But I think a good faith argument can be made, given the text above, that Mike is precisely approaching the game in its original intent and not at all redefining everything to some personal vision.

* I'm using the 1977 rules because we're tossing around the term "retro-clone" -- and as far as I'm concerned this is the edition one would want to clone if one is going retro.

** I am using the term Throw, which is the term used from Book 1.
TRAVELLER: Out of the Box. Lots of blog posts about original Traveller and playing with Traveller Books 1-3.
"The beauty of Classic Traveller Book 1, 2, and 3 is that the ref is free to make such decisions for themselves." -- Mike Wightman
"The beauty of Classic Traveller Book 1, 2, and is that the ref must make most of the decisions himself." -- flykiller

Last edited by creativehum; June 9th, 2017 at 05:23 PM..
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