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-   -   MT Only: DGP Starship Operator's Manual Vol 1. Starship Operations (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=38315)

snrdg082102 October 5th, 2017 06:31 PM

DGP Starship Operator's Manual Vol 1. Starship Operations
 
Afternoon PDT,

On the TML the topic of "1G ship vs Size 8 world" suggested that a ship with an 1G MD cannot take-off from a Size 8 world.

Digging through my MT material I found "Game Rules for Starship Operations" (SOM) in DPG Starship Operator's Manual Vol. 1 pp. 59-65 is a process for taking off from the surface of a world to low orbit, high orbit, geosynch orbit, travel time from satellite to satellite orbit, world to world orbit, orbit to jump point, and jump space flight.

The "Estimating task duration in advance" section under "Key Tasks", p. 60, "Guidelines for general-purpose tasks used on other T-charts" is the one I do not have a handle on.

Inside the block is the following for "Estimating task duration in advance":

To estimate a task's duration ahead of time:
Difficult, related skill, Int (uncertain)

Referee: Use the related skill from the task being estimated. If successful, have the player roll 3D duration ahead of time to arrive at the estimated duration for the task in question. When the actual task is performed, determine the actual duration by rolling 1D - 1D and adding the result to the estimate.

If some truth, roll 1D + 1D 9thait is, 2D) and add the result to the estimate for the actual task duration.

Example:
The situation:
Predict how long to repair the maneuver drive.
The repair requires engineering skill.
The repair has a 1 hour time increment.
The Task:
To estimate the duration of the repair task:
Difficult, Engineering, Int (uncertain)

The result:
The player succeeds at the estimate task, toll 3D, and gets an estimate of 7 hours. Later, when the player does the repair, he rolls 1D followed by 1D, giving a 2 and a 4.
If the Referee got a total truth estimate: 7 + (2 - 4) = 5 hours actual duration.
If the Referee got a some truth estimate: 7 + (2 + 4) = 13 hours actual duration.

MT Referee's manual p. 13 has text referencing how uncertain risk qualifier, the SOM's instructions, and example works.

Can anyone provide a relatively easy way on how "Estimating task duration in advance" works plase?

Major B October 6th, 2017 04:37 PM

MT0215 Referee's Companion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by snrdg082102 (Post 574763)
...
On the TML the topic of "1G ship vs Size 8 world" suggested that a ship with an 1G MD cannot take-off from a Size 8 world.
...
The "Estimating task duration in advance" section under "Key Tasks", p. 60, "Guidelines for general-purpose tasks used on other T-charts" is the one I do not have a handle on.
...

Tom, I recommend you check the Referee's Companion if you have a copy. On page 21 is a chart that provides estimated travel times (in days) for in-system travel. It is pretty comprehensive and I've used it several time to calculate how much endurance to build into a design.

I haven't read the TML topic you referenced but I think it assumes a "straight up" exit from the surface through the gravity well in which case 1G acceleration will be cancelled by the planet's gravity. Your reference from the SOM seems to be assuming an angled departure relative to the planet's surface which (I think) makes more sense. I forget the MT rules for streamlining and airfoil / wing effects off the top of my head because I have been working with T5 for some time now but in T5 an airfoil or a streamlined ship with wings gets a lift bonus allowing a 1G ship to gain orbit with relative efficiency.

Hope that helps even if I didn't exactly help with how to use the task profile to figure it out.

Mike

snrdg082102 October 6th, 2017 07:54 PM

Hello Major B,

Thank you for the reply, the info on travel times in the Referee's Companion, and a heads up about T5. I've got T5 on my to purchase wish list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major B (Post 574805)
Tom, I recommend you check the Referee's Companion if you have a copy. On page 21 is a chart that provides estimated travel times (in days) for in-system travel. It is pretty comprehensive and I've used it several time to calculate how much endurance to build into a design.

I have not gotten to the point of verifying if the DPG Starship Operator's Manual Vol. I travel time for in-system matches the table in the Referee's manual. I am still trying to figure out the time from surface to orbit rules. The calculations, with rounding appear to match the Starship Operating Procedures in MT Imperial Encyclopedia pp. 92-93

Quote:

I haven't read the TML topic you referenced but I think it assumes a "straight up" exit from the surface through the gravity well in which case 1G acceleration will be cancelled by the planet's gravity. Your reference from the SOM seems to be assuming an angled departure relative to the planet's surface which (I think) makes more sense. I forget the MT rules for streamlining and airfoil / wing effects off the top of my head because I have been working with T5 for some time now but in T5 an airfoil or a streamlined ship with wings gets a lift bonus allowing a 1G ship to gain orbit with relative efficiency.
The procedures in the Starship Operator's Manual does not appear to take a ship's streamlining in to consideration. It does however take in atmosphere into consideration but from what has been said the method used is backwards from reality.

Quote:

Hope that helps even if I didn't exactly help with how to use the task profile to figure it out.

Mike
I am not holding my breath that someone will be along to translate the rules for me, I'm still trying to figure out the Task system as described in the Referee's Manual.

The more I dig into the Starship Operator's Manual and the procedure the more I find I'm missing the process. Thank you again for the reply.

Spinward Scout October 6th, 2017 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snrdg082102 (Post 574818)
The more I dig into the Starship Operator's Manual and the procedure the more I find I'm missing the process. Thank you again for the reply.

If I remember right, there was a flow chart at the back of the S.O.M., and I don't think it was completed before printing. I'm not sure some of the stuff in the Starship Operator's Manual worked completely well with the rest of MegaTraveller. Use what feels best for your game, but you should probably stay as close to the main GDW books as possible. Just for consistency.

Don't get me wrong, I think the S.O.M. is pretty awesome and filled with a ton of stuff.

snrdg082102 October 6th, 2017 11:49 PM

Evening PDT Spinward Scout,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spinward Scout (Post 574828)
If I remember right, there was a flow chart at the back of the S.O.M., and I don't think it was completed before printing. I'm not sure some of the stuff in the Starship Operator's Manual worked completely well with the rest of MegaTraveller. Use what feels best for your game, but you should probably stay as close to the main GDW books as possible. Just for consistency.

Don't get me wrong, I think the S.O.M. is pretty awesome and filled with a ton of stuff.

What I was trying to say is that I'm not figuring out what is supposed to happen in those parts that do not have an example to go by or I do not have a handle on how the task is put together even after reading through the Referee's Manual.

Thank you for the suggestions and advice.

Supplement Four October 8th, 2017 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major B (Post 574805)
I haven't read the TML topic you referenced but I think it assumes a "straight up" exit from the surface through the gravity well in which case 1G acceleration will be cancelled by the planet's gravity.

In the early days of CT, it is alluded to that ships producing 1G thrust cannot make escape velocity from Size 8+ worlds. There is an article in an early White Dwarf Magazine that suggests that these vessels will only visit High Ports and never set down on Size 8+ worlds, transferring cargo to Zero-G orbital bins and only visiting the surface through use of surface-to-orbit taxis.

The article also suggested the use of demountable rockets that can be placed on the craft to produce escape velocity.

I like the idea, and this is how I play my CT game.

As CT matured, the idea seemed to be discarded or ignored. Aerodynamic lift is sometimes attributed to helping a ship make escape velocity when its drives are at the limit.

The SOM addresses this "problem" by stating that even a 1G M-Drive has an overdrive capability where it produces greater than 1G thrust for a very short period of time--enough time to make escape velocity from a world.

David Johansen October 8th, 2017 12:49 PM

I've never understood why this is even a thing.

Antigravity technology makes escape velocity completely irrelevant. The only real obstacle is the atmospheric friction.

Major B October 8th, 2017 06:06 PM

Thanks S4!

Blue Ghost October 8th, 2017 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Johansen (Post 574902)
I've never understood why this is even a thing.

Antigravity technology makes escape velocity completely irrelevant. The only real obstacle is the atmospheric friction.

I always saw antigrav technology as like an energy "oil". You can put a field of "antigravity" between your ship or air raft, but it can't push you forward unless you keep cranking up the energy. Which means you would need a power plant to keep feeding your antigrav system for a higher and higher output to gain altitude. The cheap solution is to just mount a couple of thrusters and have them push your ship faster and faster so that eventually you no longer need to rely on antigravity, and can accelerate away from the gravity well.

Just me.

snrdg082102 October 9th, 2017 02:55 AM

Evening Supplement 4,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supplement Four (Post 574900)
In the early days of CT, it is alluded to that ships producing 1G thrust cannot make escape velocity from Size 8+ worlds. There is an article in an early White Dwarf Magazine that suggests that these vessels will only visit High Ports and never set down on Size 8+ worlds, transferring cargo to Zero-G orbital bins and only visiting the surface through use of surface-to-orbit taxis.

The article also suggested the use of demountable rockets that can be placed on the craft to produce escape velocity.

I like the idea, and this is how I play my CT game.

As CT matured, the idea seemed to be discarded or ignored. Aerodynamic lift is sometimes attributed to helping a ship make escape velocity when its drives are at the limit.

I have the first edition of Traveller LBB1-3 and picked up the softcover FFE Classic books. The material that I have as far as I can tell made no mention of how ships landed or took-off from a world. I do recall an article about a downport that had a grid, someone suggested the article was in The Dragon. I also have a vague memory about that ships being launched with boosters from sites near the equator and using the Earth's rotation to make orbit.

Quote:

The SOM addresses this "problem" by stating that even a 1G M-Drive has an overdrive capability where it produces greater than 1G thrust for a very short period of time--enough time to make escape velocity from a world.
From DGP MT SOM p. 3
"Lateral Thrust: Since the output of a drive falls to 25% when providing lateral thrust, it would seem that a 4G maneuver drive is required for a starship to hover above the ground on a planet with a 1G field. In fact, because a starship obtains full thrust directly aft, hovering id often done in a nose-up attitude."

The accompanying illustration shows a ship landing on its tail and "then gradually moving the shifting the direction of thrust so that the ship settles into a horizontal (that is lateral) landing position."

The text also mentions that ships can be "built to land and take off in an up-ended with the decks being parallel to the aft of the craft, rather than its belly."

The practice of over-driving the MD thruster plates is used to place a 1G ship into a "lateral hover at takeoff and landing."

Darn-it the topic has once again drifted off course as usual, hopefully someone will be willing to translate the example of Estimating task duration in advance into something I can understand

Also a thank-you to everyone who has replied to the topic.


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